asked the Taoiseach if, in light of the new Government's programme, he will outline his approach to devolution within Northern Ireland.
8.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Devolved Government in Northern Ireland.
7.
asked the Taoiseach if the Government supports the establishment of democratic devolved Government in Northern Ireland; the measures, if any, the Government intends to take to encourage progress towards devolved Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 8 together.
Article 4 of the Anglo-Irish Agreement states that both the Irish and the British Governments recognise that devolution can be achieved only with the co-operation of constitutional representatives within Northern Ireland of both traditions there. The Review of the Working of the Conference carried out by both Governments and published last May, states:
It continues to be the British Government's policy, supported by the Irish Government, to encourage progress towards the devolution of responsibility for certain powers to elected representatives in Northern Ireland as set out in Article 4 of the Agreement. Both sides recognise that the achievement of devolution depends on the co-operation of constitutional representatives of both traditions within Northern Ireland.
In view of the Taoiseach's reply, his position has changed in a significant way from the statement he made to this House some months ago when he said that he had no particular interest in devolution in Northern Ireland. Why does the programme for Government published last Thursday by the two parties in Government make no specific reference to devolution?
I never said what the Deputy now quotes me as having said. I have been at great pains in the House on a number of occasions to explain my attitude and policy in regard to devolution. I have just given the House an outline of the exact factual position with regard to devolution.
Could the Taoiseach indicate whether the programme for Government agreed between his party and the Progressive Democrats includes intensive work in relation to devolved Government? The programme indicates that intensive work will continue in areas of fundamental importance to the people of Northern Ireland, including the administration of justice and relations with the security forces. Does this intensive work include assisting parties in Northern Ireland to reach a position where they can form a devolved Government?
The position is governed by the Anglo-Irish Agreement and more recently by the review. In all our documents support for and determination to work the processes of the Anglo-Irish Agreement figure quite prominently. That is the position. We are committed to the Anglo-Irish Agreement, Article 4 of which sets out very clearly the position in regard to devolution.
While I welcome the Taoiseach's commitment to the Anglo-Irish Agreement, I will get the reference for his statement in this House that he had no particular interest in devolution in Northern Ireland. Will he now state emphatically that the Government's position and policy in relation to Northern Ireland is that devolution is an acceptable form of Government there?
I cannot do any more than repeat what I said in my reply. Article 4 of the Anglo-Irish Agreement states that both the Irish and the British Governments recognise that devolution can be achieved only with the co-operation of constitutional representatives within Northern Ireland of both traditions there. The recent review states:
It continues to be the British Government's policy, supported by the Irish Government, to encourage progress towards the devolution of responsibility for certain powers to elected representatives in Northern Ireland as set out in Article 4 of the Agreement. Both sides recognise that the achievement of devolution depends on the co-operation of constitutional representatives of both traditions within Northern Ireland.
That is the Government's position.
I welcome the Taoiseach's restatement of British Government policy in relation to devolution, which is now supported by the Irish Government. Can we take it by deduction that this is now the Irish Government's policy as well?
The review document states quite specifically that it continues to be the British Government's policy, supported by the Irish Government.
I welcome what appears to be a shift in the position of the Taoiseach.
This is precisely what I have said on every previous occasion in this House.
Not so.
I will not misrepresent the Taoiseach but he did say in this House on a previous occasion that he did not see the Irish Government as having any role in relation to devolved Government, that it was a matter for the British Government to bring forward proposals on devolved Government and for the Irish Government to respond.
That is still the position.
A question, please.
Can I take it that the Taoiseach will, through his Government, use the Anglo-Irish Agreement to encourage all the parties in Northern Ireland to establish dialogue in relation to devolved Government, in view of the Taoiseach's statement today that he supports this procedure?
There is no change in my position in that regard. I have given the factual legal position, the Anglo-Irish Agreement position, time and again in this House. With regard to encouraging people in Northern Ireland as to what they should or should not do, I think that is something that any political leader down here should be very careful about. Sometimes efforts which one might feel inclined to make in regard to any matter in Northern Ireland can be counterproductive because of the very fact that it emanates from here or from somebody down here. So these are matters which have to be handled very carefully and very sensitively.
I am delighted to hear the Taoiseach say that. That was not always his position.
Would the Taoiseach not agree——
I was going to finish my reply, if I may. In this area, I would very much like to be able to have discussions without preconditions with all the representatives of the constitutional parties in Northern Ireland. That still remains my position.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that the Official Unionist Party, the Alliance Party of Northern Ireland and the Social Democratic and Labour Party in Northern Ireland have all published their own views as to what form systems of devolved government should take? I think the Taoiseach and I would be at one in being somewhat baffled about what the position of the DUP might be, but certainly those other three parties have made it clear that they have particular views on what the shape of devolved government would be. Would the Taoiseach not think it might be useful if the British and Irish Governments, either together or separately but in concert, were to enter into that discussion in order to encourage those three parties to bring their views of devolved government closer together than they are now?
I do not agree with the Deputy's analysis. First of all, I do not agree that there is anything like a major move in the political parties in Northern Ireland towards devolution at present. That is not the sort of report I get on that matter. Secondly, I would not necessarily agree that some intervention by the Irish Government or even the British Government into the situation would necessarily be beneficial at any particular point in time. I do not think that necessarily follows. One could advance the argument, and I am sure a number of the representatives of the parties in Northern Ireland would suggest it, that it would be better that the parties there be allowed talk to each other without any outside intervention——
The record is that they have not.
It is a matter of opinion.
It is a matter of record. They have not.
It is something that has to be approached very carefully and very sensitively.