Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 19 Jul 1989

Vol. 391 No. 6

Estimates, 1989. - Vote 30: Marine ( Revised Estimate )

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £115,860,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1989, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for the Marine, including certain services administered by that Office, and for payment of certain grants and sundry grants-in-aid.

The main thrust of Government policy is the restoration and improvement of confidence in our economy, both at home and abroad. The National Development Plan 1989-1993 is a planned approach to the challenges ahead and to the opportunities presented by the doubling of the Structural Funds. The new and improved regime of EC Structural Funds provides us with the opportunity to reduce some of the economic and other disadvantages we suffer from as an island state.

The national plan recognises the importance of marine activities to the State. The plan embraces all the major economic responsibilities of my Department. It covers aspects of the sea fishing industry, in particular fish processing and marketing, and fishery harbours and also contains a major programme of development for commercial ports and shipping. Under the tourism aspect, there will be every opportunity for the development of viable angling and marine recreational projects.

Before going any further I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to my predecessor and the first Minister for the Marine, Deputy Brendan Day, whose energetic work led to the successful establishment of the new Department. Progress has been recorded right across the sphere of marine activities with the introduction of a comprehensive package of measures to encourage shipping; significant planning in relation to Irish ports; unprecedented growth and development in aquaculture and the development of a strategy for the seafish industry. This list of achievements in which he was ably aided by the Minister of State, Deputy Pat the Cope Gallagher is its own tribute and I appreciate the sound foundation provided and on which I intend to build.

The sea fishing industry has grown strongly over the last 25 years and in recent years we have seen the emergence of a rapidly growing aquaculture sector. These sectors contribute significantly to employment and incomes in areas where there are few alternative sources of employment. Inadequate infrastructure particularly at fishery harbours and structural weaknesses in the fleet and in the processing and marketing sectors are significant obstacles to future growth. The development strategy for the fishing industry adopted by the Government in 1988 sets a target for the creation of 4,400 new and part-time jobs in the seafish, aquaculture, processing and ancillary industries by 1991.

The protection and enhancement of fish stocks as well as the discovery and exploitation of new stocks is critical to the future wellbeing of the sea fishing industry. Resource management is a major concern now for all member states. Since 1980 in the Community total stocks of major importance have dwindled, often substantially. It is the Government's firm policy to properly enforce conservation measures and to ensure that they are also equally enforced elsewhere.

A large part of the reason for overfishing is of course the existence in the Community of substantial overcapacity in the fishing fleets. In relation to the quotas available to us, we share that overcapacity in certain segments of our fleet, as our quotas are insufficient to keep some parts of the fleet, particularly the pelagic fleet, fully occupied. However, there are always new applicants keen to enter the industry. Entry into the industry has to be closely regulated in the interests of the applicants themselves as well as of those already in the industry, taking into account social, regional and employment considerations as well as the economic aspects. At the same time many of the boats in the fleet are too old and out of date. The fleet needs to be renewed, modernised and directed towards underexploited species and new species to maximise long-term economic gains for the whole industry.

The provision of funds from the Community is critical to the renewal and modernisation of our fleet. The Community at the moment, however, in furtherance of its objectives of reducing fleet capacity is, in effect, linking the availability of funds to the achievement of reductions in the fleets in the individual member states.

In recent years the Community has been reluctant to aid new constructions in those member states which the Commission considers to have the greatest excess capacity problem. This is a difficult and complex problem. We are determined to ensure that our fleet can develop so as to economically exploit the new opportunities which are becoming available.

At the same time without Community aid, the scope for expansion is limited. This matter is the subject of on-going discussion at Community level. We are taking all the practical steps open to us to meet our EC obligations. Restrictive licensing policies are in operation. We are at an advanced stage of preparations for a new fleet register in conformity with EC legislation.

Within these constraints, BIM, together with the other State agencies concerned, are pursuing a vigorous development strategy on all fronts. I should like to highlight today just three of the elements of that strategy; these are exploratory fishing, quality standards and the ice plant programme.

A key element of the Government's strategy for economic growth in the fishing industry is the expanded programme of sustained exploratory fishing for non-quota and other under-utilised species such as argentines and blue whiting. The programme also involves the assessment of stocks of shellfish around the coast.

Exploratory fishing activity is aimed at assessing the potential for extending the range of species and fishing activities for both the fleet and fish processors. In 1988 a BIM/EC exploratory fishing programme on argentine and blue whiting was undertaken and resulted in the landing of almost 10,000 tonnes of non-quota species. The development work is commercially biased and is undertaken by working fishing vessels. Effectiveness is measured in terms of increased catches, or catches of better quality fish.

Development activity at sea also includes fishing gear trials aimed at introducing more cost effective catching methods measured in terms of catch rates and fuel consumption. BIM expect to spend £510,000 on exploratory fishing in 1989 — £230,000 of this would be of a capital nature. This expenditure affords the Irish fishing industry access to EC grant aid for this activity.

Quality in fish products is essential for both producer and consumer. For the producer it means better prices: for the consumer it means fresher, more nutritional and safer products. The Department of the Marine's campaign to improve substantially the image and status of Irish fish and fishery products, both nationally and internationally, was launched in 1987.

In 1989 it is planned to build further upon and consolidate the considerable progress and gains made to date with the aim of achieving the highest possible standards of operational and structural hygiene throughout the fishing industry. This will involve changes in the Departments auction halls, ensuring that all boats handle and maintain their catch in a fresh and hygienic fashion, and the maintenance and improvement, where necessary, of both operational and structural hygiene in processing premises. Furthermore, product sampling will be intensified to ensure product safety and to enhance the image and status of Irish fish.

The quality programme is designed to put the Irish sea fish industry in a strong competitive position for the nineties. As part of these plans BIM have been funded to accelerate the expansion of ice production at BIM plants. The BIM ice plant network will be operated on a commercial basis. In general, BIM will retain direct control of larger plants but with local involvement through leasing of smaller plants to fishermen groups/cooperatives etc. This will guarantee continuity of ice supply and availability to all users. Total investment planned for 1989 will amount to £900,000. Support is being sought from EC funds to underpin this programme and to allow for a better and more extensive coverage than would otherwise be possible.

As Minister responsible for the regulation and development of aquaculture in the State, my objective is to maximise the industry's contribution to the economy in a way commensurate with the preservation of a clean environment. The year, 1989 will see further development of our strategies on both these fronts. The statistics on farmed salmon, for example, speak for themselves: in 1983 we produced 250 tonnes of farmed salmon. In 1989 the estimated output will be 7,300 tonnes, the bulk of which will be exported at an estimated value of £35 million. Our achievable target for 1991 is an output level of over 14,000 tonnes worth in excess of £71 million and, with it, the jobs and exports which will represent the sector's most significant contribution to economic development.

I must stress again, however, that the rapid growth in intensive production of the priority species — salmon, trout, oysters and mussels — in our coastal waters and on freshwater sites must take place in a way compatible with the maintenance of clean waters and the safeguarding of public health and amenities. In response to the continued, and may I say largely ill founded, criticism of the industry, let me reiterate my determination to use the legislative and regulatory powers at my disposal to achieve the development of aquaculture consistent with environmental excellence. To this end I intend to ensure public consultation in relation to licence applications. In addition, I will continue to vet each application thoroughly from the points of view of navigational safety, environmental impact and compatibility with other water users.

The principal measures which I am putting in place in order to achieve our policy objectives includes the provision of a sound legal framework for the controlled development of the industry through the designation of areas for aquaculture; co-ordination, under the aegis of my Department, of the activities of the two principal State agencies Údarás na Gaeltachta and BIM in order to maximise the impact of State aid to the sector; liaison with the EC Commission in order to optimise the development of aquaculture; and the continued deployment, within the constraints on public finances, of the necessary scientific and diagnostic resources to ensure the monitoring and control of aquaculture operations to the highest safety and quality standards.

To conclude on aquaculture, I must express my satisfaction at the use of public resources in this area. Use of money from my Department's Vote through An Bord Iascaigh Mhara, has successfully primed an industry which has now developed a momentum of its own. Údarás na Gaeltachta have worked closely with BIM and this Department in co-ordinating the development of the industry.

Now that the salmon industry, in particular, has reached such a level of development, my Department will be looking closely at the processing and marketing strategy which will be necessary to sustain existing and projected levels of output. What I would like to see happen is that our industry should move as far as possible from the concept of producing a commodity — which would have to accept the world price — towards the production of a premium quality product.

Fish stock research projects are designed to assess scientifically annual trends in the main commercial resources exploited by the Irish fleet and which are subject to quota regulation namely mackerel, herring, cod, whiting, haddock, plaice, sole and prawns.

Most of these stocks are scientifically assessed every year by the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea and by the European Commission's Scientific and Technical Committee on Fisheries. Their joint recommendations — in the formulation of which my Department's scientists play a full and active part — form the basis for the total allowable catches — and ultimately national quotas — agreed subsequently by the Fisheries Council of the European Communities.

I have allocated an extra £20,000 towards a mackerel egg survey, part of the triennial international survey designed to update the assessment of the mackerel stock which, at 40 per cent, is the biggest single component of our marine fisheries.

In order to match the Department's research input to the growing importance of "non-quota" stocks such as argentine, blue whiting and horse mackerel, such manpower as was still available within the Fisheries Research Centre was reallocated last year to increase the research effort on these stocks, which will support the expansion of Irish marine fisheries. I place a high priority on research on such non-quota stocks, and on expanding it wherever possible. It must still be stressed, however, that the current level of research expenditure comes to no more than about 1 per cent of the first sale value of the marine landings. I will be seeking to increase this level of investment.

In furtherance of this Government's fisheries development policy, I am determined to put the scientific services of my Department on a sound footing so that the Irish fishing industry is not denied the benefit of a research effort comparable to those enjoyed by the other maritime States of the Community.

One of the most outstanding problems facing fish and shellfish farmers is the disruption to trade and the mortalities of stock resulting from exceptional blooms of microscopic marine plants — the phenomenon known as red tides. In 1988 one such outbreak caused the closure of mussel production in the south-west for 23 weeks, from July to October. In earlier years marine fish farmers have had their stock severely depleted by a particular type of red tide which suffocated large numbers of salmon and sea trout in the sea cages. Therefore, I have increased the 1989 budget for research in this area by £50,000 to buy new equipment for the Fisheries Research Centre.

Another aquaculture subject of primary importance which is being addressed by my Department is the ouster disease "Bonamia" which, although believed harmless to the human consumer, is capable of wiping out whole stocks of the native oyster. In order to tackle the speedy diagnosis of this disease, I have allocated an extra £15,000 to the Fish Pathology Unit in my Department's Fisheries Research Centre to purchase newly developed equipment from France.

Inland fisheries is a sensitive subject and I do not intend for the moment to go beyond what has been included in the Programme for Government 1989-1993. The rod licence problem is part of a wider issue involving the funding of the development of our inland fisheries as an important national resource.

A major effort will be undertaken at the highest level to resolve the current dispute in full consultation with fisheries boards, angling clubs and tourist boards keeping in mind the financing and development of inland fisheries. I have already issued a statement to this effect and I have indicated my willingness to meet the anti-rod licence group for exploratory talks. I should like to assure the House that I will do everything possible to find a reasonable and equitable solution to this problem.

The State harbours have taken over responsibility from the Office of Public Works for the harbours at Howth, Dunmore East and Dún Laoghaire. Both Howth and Dunmore East are designated fishery harbour centres and will operate in this context once the necessary legislative changes are in place. As the House is aware the Department of the Marine is running the Dún Laoghaire harbour since 1 January and we have to put legislation in place with regard to it.

The Marine Institute is very important as the House has been made aware already. The Government have approved in principle the establishment of an institute the aim of which is to undertake, co-ordinate, promote and assist marine research and to provide related services. From the truncated version of my speech the House will know how important that is.

With regard to shipping policy, I have already mentioned that it was part of my predcessor's achievement that grants of 25 per cent towards the purchase of new or secondhand ships up to seven years old are now available; a corporation profit tax rate of 10 per cent, the business expansion scheme and NADCORP are also there to build up the fleet.

In relation to marine safety, as the House is aware, the most significant development was the decision by the previous Government at the end of last May to position a Dauphin helicopter at Shannon from September 1989 — this helicopter to be available on a 24-hour response basis throughout the year. The rescue earlier this year of 11 men of the crew of the fishing vessel Big Cat at Valentia indicates the importance of the coast life saving service. I am glad to inform the House that six new stations at areas of major fishing activity are to be set up at Burtonport, Killybegs, Killala Bay, Achill, Castletownbere and Howth. I would draw the attention of the House to the fact that the west coast is well served now, better served than it had been before.

This year my Department will make a contribution of £100,000 to the Royal National Lifeboat Institution. This contribution is in recognition of the sterling work carried out on a voluntary basis by the institution in Ireland. I would like to take this opportunity to welcome again the decision of the RNLI to establish, on a trail basis, a new main station at Ballyglass, County Mayo, and to encourage the general public to give generously to the RNLI. I would like to record my appreciation and that of the Government for the noble men and women of the rescue agencies who risk their lives to save others.

Aithníonn an Rialtas seo an deis iontach atá ag baint lenár n-acmhainní mara ó thaobh forbairt eacnamaíochta agus sóisialta de. Táimid lán-sásta gur féidir linn an cuspóir seo a shroisint trí réim scéimeanna a bheas á chur i ngníomh le linn an Phleain Naisiúnta 1989-1993. Táim ag súil le cuntas a thabhairt ar ais don Teach seo mar gheall mar gheall ar fhíor dul chun cinn sna limistéir seo le linn na blianta atá romhainn.

Perhaps I should explain that the provision in respect of this Estimate was different from others where there was a time allocation of two hours. The time in the case of this Estimate is one hour with suitable adjustments, which requires each following speaker to limit himself or herself to ten minutes.

First, I should like to congratulate the Minister, Deputy Wilson, on his new appointment to the Department of the Marine. This appointment is particularly significant given that his previous portfolio was in the Department of Tourism. I hope that the knowledge he brings to this Department from the Department of Tourism will help him to resolve the immediate and major problem, which is within his Department, namely, the rod licence dispute which has existed for the past one and a half years.

In the course of his speech the Minister said that he would like to assure the House that he would do everything possible to find a reasonable and equitable solution to this problem. Many areas have been gone through in the past year and a half in relation to this problem and it is my view that the major stumbling block in preventing a solution to the rod licence dispute is within his Cabinet and is in fact, the Taoiseach. The Minister will have to convince him that it is time to realise what the problem is. Sacking Ministers and using them as scapegoats is no cover for his own incompetence. Neither are pious aspirations by him on the 1 o'clock radio interview on Sunday "This Week" or in Programme for Government documents any consolation to the people who are badly affected, throughout the country, as a result of this dispute which has continued for so long.

I hope the Taoiseach will realise that there is a solution to this problem. I am sure the Minister is aware that there is a solution which was put together by Fine Gael some months ago. I was amazed today to hear what the Minister for Energy, Deputy Mollony, had to say on this issue. On the RTE 1 o'clock news programme today the Minister for Energy, Deputy Molloy stated:

It is not possible at this time of the year, mid July, to repeal the rod licence legislation because of the Oireachtas situation. There is no Seanad, it has completed its term and there is now a new election taking place. The Dáil is only meeting this week, and then it goes into summer recess. Legislatively it is not possible to introduce legislation on the rod licence. We could not insist on action in that area now.

This is despicable behaviour from the Minister. There is a Seanad and it can meet at any time. There is a Dáil and again it can meet at any time. I assure the Minister for the Marine that Fine Gael will accommodate him either tomorrow night, or on Friday or next week if he is prepared to bring legislation before this House to resolve this problem. There is still time at the end of July and August when fishing can take place. We are prepared to accommodate the Minister in resolving it if he so wishes. I disagree very strongly with what the Minister, Deputy Molloy, had to say today. He stated as follows:

Secondly it was not possible for any Government to give a commitment to suspend the operation of the rod licence pending the introduction of legislation, and we accepted that, having consulted our own lawyers, that route was not open to us either. I am satisfied with the discussions we have had that a very positive attempt will now be made to find a satisfactory solution to the rod licence dispute, and I expect that John Wilson will be very successful in this area.

I would like to put it to the House that the Minister for Energy, Deputy Molloy, is more than aware that there is a solution to this problem and that prior to the election he and his party agreed a solution with Fine Gael in the Fine Gael-PD pact. I am astounded that the Minister when he had an opportunity last week in his negotiations with Fianna Fáil did not use it to ensure an end to the rod licence dispute. He was in a position last week to argue very forcibly with the Taoiseach on this issue and to secure a deal and have the matter resolved within a matter of days. Instead of that he let the issue slip and secured two Cabinet seats in the Government. The result is that the angling community and the tourist interests throughout the country who had hoped that this matter would be resolved have been let down by the Minister for Energy. That is extremely unfortunate and I am amazed by his behaviour.

I hope the Minister will be in a position within the next few days to bring legislation before this House to resolve the problem. The Department of the Marine is an extremely important Department. It is in operation for only the past two-odd years. It has responsibility for a variety of areas. The fishing area is one of the most important areas because it includes both inland and sea fisheries. The previous Government have been extremely unsuccessful in the manner in which they have operated in Europe particularly in relation to the negotiation of quotas for both mackerel and herring. An unfortunate situation has developed because of our reduced quotas. There is a danger that many people will lose jobs in the fishing industry and, particularly, in the processing area. This is particularly true of Donegal. Because of the last agreement which was made in relation to fishing east of the 4º line many fish were landed outside this country and the result is that the processing industry has been severely damaged by that decision.

Another situation which is farcical is the agreement by the previous Government to allow the fishing fleet to be reduced from 66,000 GRT to 44,000 GRT. In the Estimate today we see that the spending in this area has also been substantially reduced. This is extremely unfortunate. However, what is far more serious is that this year Irish people cannot avail of FEOGA grants to purchase fishing vessels. This is extremely serious for the young people who want to get into the industry and purchase their own boats and now they cannot get any assistance or grant aid. These are just some areas which are seriously affected at present.

There is a need for a far more vigorous marketing programme by BIM. There are enormous opportunities for a strong marketing campaign right across Europe and in other countries to ensure greater sales of Irish abroad.

The inland fisheries have been in utter chaos for the past year and a half and have been very badly affected by the rod licence dispute. We are all aware of what is involved but unfortunately we see that the Estimate proposes a reduction of 10 per cent on the 1988 figure in that area. This is extremely unfortunate. The Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats statement on this issue is totally unacceptable. Since this issue has been around for quite some time and the parties are already familiar with it, there is an onus on them to do something immediately to settle the matter.

I am extremely disappointed with the amount of money available in the Estimate for the development of commercial and State ports. We, an island country, will be the only country without direct land access to Europe in 1992. Therefore we need to be in a position where goods can be transported as quickly, efficiently and cost effectively from Ireland as from mainland Europe to European countries. Unless we have very efficient ports with good handling and berthage facilities we will not be in a position to compete economically. This could cost this country jobs. The new Minister, Deputy Wilson, should give major priority to this area. There is an onus on the Minister to make substantial progress in the overall development of transport from Ireland to mainland Europe. This is a major priority and must be seen as such by the Department. The amount of money allocated for investment in harbours is not adequate.

The shipping investment grants have been reduced in the Estimates by 50 per cent on the 1988 figure. This is extremely unfortunate. We need to upgrade the fleet in order to be in a position to transport our goods. However, there has been a reduction in the allocation for grants. Shipping is extremely important and there is great potential for development in this area. I suggest that the Minister increase the qualifying ceiling under the business expansion scheme to £6 million because the present ceiling is not adequate and there would be scope for development if that were done.

There are many other areas I would like to cover and I will deal briefly with them. I am concerned that the Minister has just repeated that there is agreement in principle to set up a Marine Institute. That decision was taken two years ago but we have nothing concrete on the ground. We have been told that the institute would be set up in Galway but nothing has happened. Minister keep repeating this but nothing happens. I had hoped that the Minister would be in a position to ensure that there is a proper marine research institute and not just something in name to keep an election promise.

I am also concerned about the west coast search and rescue service. While I welcome the fact that the Government have decided to locate a Dauphin helicopter in Shannon, I would like to tell the Minister that a Dauphin helicopter does not have the capacity or the range to cover the area. If we are to have an effective rescue service what is needed is a more powerful helicopter based in Shannon. I know we do not have that type of helicopter in the Department of Defence, but the Government should consider leasing a private helicopter for that purpose.

The amount of money allocated for radio stations has also been reduced. If we are to have proper communications facilities to deal with difficulties around the coast we need radio facilities. For all of the above reasons I find it very difficult to support this Estimate and I have no option but to oppose it because I believe it does not deal with matters in a positive and constructive way.

I wish the Minister well in his new Ministry, which is a difficult one. I will begin by expressing some thoughts on the Ministry for the Marine.

Shortly after I started in politics in 1975, I recall making a speech in Seanad Éireann in which I suggested the establishment of a Department of the Marine to bring together all the aspects dealing with the sea and inland waters, replacing the old Department of Fisheries. In 1981-82 I recall asking the then Taoiseach — the present Taoiseach — in this House when he would establish a Department of the Marine. Looking at its evolution since 1982, I must confess a considerable sense of disappointment.

On the occasion of the establishment of the new Department, the first statement made was that it would draw together all aspects of Government activity in relation to the sea and inland waters. Of course, this did not happen. As you make your way through the Minister's speech, the following questions would occur to a lay person, the person whom we represent in our constituencies. Is it easier now to prepare and enter for a career in the fisheries industry? Is it easier now to begin to aspire towards making a living in aquaculture? Is it easier now to make a living in any aspect associated with the marine? The answer is, of course, that it is hardly less confusing than it was before the Department of the Marine was established.

There is no evidence that the jealousies between the different agencies of State have entirely disappeared. There is no evidence that there is a clear and coherent plan in place for the development of marine activities. Certainly, there is an absence of integration between one kind of activity and another.

When I think back I recall the basics. Under the old régime to which the Department's establishment was addressed, if you wanted to put out a raft to get involved in mussels culture, you had to apply to eight different Government agencies or Departments — the local authority were interested in what colour you painted it; the Department of Transport and Power were interested in the ropes; the Department of Health were interested in the water quality and it went on like that. If you had the energy to survive all that bureaucracy, you would think perhaps that mussels were not worth it after all. That was the situation we were faced with. Has that entirely disappeared? I do not think it has. There is, therefore, no clear commitment within the Department's activities, as either described or projected by the Minister, that gives this quality of integration between all the agencies and activities that so many of us had hoped for from the Department of the Marine.

In the limited time available, I will only touch on a number of other aspects. Where is there a reference in the Minister's speech to the importance of education and training? In the marine policy of all our European partners and of the other European countries, roughly three or four principles are stressed. These countries begin with a programme for education and training. They then move on to the whole question of the purchasing, maintenance and expansion of the fleet and necessary infrastructure and finally they look at the question of capitalisation. With regard to the question of the fleet, the notion of buying secondhand vessels with the 25 per cent grant is something that simply is not working in Ireland. I know very few successful applicants. Many obstacles have been put in their way.

The question of education has been a farce for most of this century. Let us be clear about that. People are sent to the northern parts of the country and when they ask what they will do when they finish their course and how they will set about getting a boat and so on, you can never answer them.

The question of marketing, conservation and processing is also very important. There are three jobs on land for every one at sea. We have known that for the 20 years I have been in politics and it was known for several decades before that. What is the point in talking unless we do something about it? We have discovered horse mackerel, blue whiting and other types of fish. I am sorry to say that the Norwegian research vessels made all those findings in the early seventies. Is there any reference in this document to, for instance, a research vessel to identify stocks? Of course there is not. That would be too practical. The Norwegians are practical and that is why they have four research ships off our coasts. It was they who discovered the stocks off the Porcupine and documented them. As an act of charity a few years ago, they allowed an Irish research scientist spend two or three days on board one of their ships. These are the realities. This is a Department full of disappointments for anyone who takes matters seriously in relation to the marine.

In the very limited time I have I want to put two questions directly to the Minister. There is a glorious passage in his speech. One thing we may expect of the new Minister is that the language will be good. It is accurate. In that context I have admired him for many years but I wonder who wrote this passage about the question of the balanced development of fisheries, taking all the environmental considerations into account, the thorough research and so on. Would the Minister please explain how he proposes to justify the granting of a licence under the 1959 legislation to a British owned fish farming activity in the Ballyvaughan area when local people, including those involved in different kinds of shellfish cultivation, have been waiting for the procedures of the 1980 Act to be exhausted. They thought that the 1980 Act meant something but suddenly the 1959 Act is implemented.

Much has been said about the rod licence issue. My party opposed its introduction and sought to amend the legislation. I am trying to be constructive when I say to the Minister that no action has caused as much damage to the west of Ireland communities as has the introduction of the rod licence. I would appeal to him, and I say this in a non-acrimonious way, that if he is serious about resolving the dispute, he should with, as the Taoiseach said, one mighty effort at the highest level — touches of Fionn Mac Cumhaill, as it were——

Cuchulainn, an Ulster man.

I take the correction. Cuchulainn's shoulder will certainly be necessary. Would your Cuchulainn, the Taoiseach, not think of saying, as a gesture of goodwill towards the communities that have been damaged, that the legislation will be put into abeyance until the talks have been concluded? That would enable people who have been very badly affected by this legislation to make some progress and to set up an atmosphere of goodwill.

I hesitate to interrupt Deputy Michael D. Higgins but I wish to advise him that he has one minute left.

I want to use that one minute to say that the dispute is not about money; it is about something that is very relevant to most of the serious pieces of the Minister's speech, that is, the ecologically responsible development of tourism where it affects fisheries. There is a report available in the Minister's office in relation to aquaculture and the development of a new industry. That report was published a few weeks ago and it points out the dangers regarding land-based hatcheries and other installations. Those who want the responsible development of the Corrib and of our lakes and inland waters are simply saying: "Let us not have an artificial development of a put and take type fishery and that type of tourism but let us take into account the way in which wild fish have developed." The communities who have been associated with the possibilities of lakes and wild fish have responded to the possibilities and have said: "Let us be involved; we will pay for it; it is not about money."

The time has come to call another speaker.

The dispute is about exclusion and control much more than it is about money. I appeal to the Minister to make the good gesture and say: "We will call off the legislation, we will begin talks and we will create an atmosphere in which we can go forward together."

I would like to join with the previous speakers in congratulating the Minister on his appointment and in wishing him well in his Department.

There is a number of areas I would like to deal with specifically in the relatively short period available to me. First, there is the question of the rod licence dispute. The Minister is quite correct when he says that the rod licence dispute has to be seen in the wider context of the funding for inland fisheries. The whole issue and the whole dispute about the rod licence has disguised the fact that for the past several years there have been very serious cutbacks in the allocation of funds to the regional fishery boards and for the development of inland fisheries. The present rod licence is a direct product of a cutback. There was a grand plan which involved a £1 million cut in the grants available for inland fisheries and that £1 million was to be recouped, half of it from the rod licence and the other half from the other side of the grand plan scheme — the abolition of the regional fisheries boards. Both aspects of that scheme were draft and should now be abandoned.

It is quite clear that the rod licence is dead. The Minister and the Government must realise that. The legislation should be abandoned. There is no point in producing some ham-fisted compromise which would perhaps involve a further payment through the clubs putting them in a difficult position and perhaps causing difficulties for people involved in fishing.

The funds and the resources should be restored to the regional fishery boards to enable them to do their job. The boards have been subjected to constant cutbacks since 1983. The staff in these boards are down 40 per cent on their 1983 level and the budget for the regional fishery boards is only about two-thirds of what it was in 1983. When the whole controversy about the rod licence is over there should be a greater emphasis on the development of inland fisheries so that the potential of the lakes of this country can be fully realised for tourism and for the creation of employment.

I was very disappointed that there was no reference in the Minister's speech to Irish Shipping, particularly since the largest single item in the Estimate refers to £90 million which is largely due to the Irish Shipping debacle. In March 1987 the Minister undertook to bring a report before the Dáil which would provide some relief for the former employees of Irish Shipping, many of whom are still without wages which they were owed from before the time Irish Shipping went into liquidation. The matter has been handled by three different Ministers and all the replies refer to how complex a legal issue the whole Irish Shipping position is.

Surely it is possible for the Government and the Dáil to bring forward legislation which would provide for those loyal servants who gave many years of their lives serving this State in Irish Shipping. I notice in the Official Report of 4 May 1989, column 1337, Volume 389, that Deputy Desmond O'Malley raised a question as to why the then Government had failed to honour their party promise to the former employees of Irish Shipping. I was surprised, therefore, to find no reference to the former employees of Irish Shipping in the programme for government which was put before us, and I hope the Minister who gave the former employees of Irish Shipping a very specific promise in March 1987 will without delay provide some relief for those people. It is a shame. I know of at least one case where a former employee has died before this matter has been resolved and a number of other former employees are seriously ill.

I welcome the commitment in the programme for government to a review in respect of the common fisheries policy before 1989. It reminds us that we were sold out in 1980 and 1981 when the size of our fleet and quotas were severely restricted, largely as a result of Government incompetence at that time. We now have a very comprehensive development strategy for the sea fishing industry which has been published by Bord Iascaigh Mhara. Indeed I was surprised that again there was no mention of that specifically in the programme for government. However, we have to be worried that that strategy will be frustrated unless something is done about the size of the fleet. In particular, I would like to comment on the failure of the Government to secure EC funding for the development of the white fish fleet as evidenced by the lack of money from the EC in the spring of this year. The Irish Fishermen's Organisation have also commented and raised a worry about the possible loss of jobs in the fishing industry as a result of restrictions in the fishing fleet.

I am concerned at the two paragraphs in the Minister's speech concerning Dún Laoghaire harbour. The speech makes no reference at all to the fact that the report was produced last November by a planning review group established by the Minister's predecessor who produced a very comprehensive report dealing with Dún Laoghaire harbour. The Minister talked about his Department examining proposals for the harbour. It is as if the planning review group had never met and we are back to pre-spring 1988 where the Department were examining proposals many of which are totally unacceptable to the people of the area.

The controversy over the proposed marina at Dún Laoghaire harbour was seriously misrepresented as something engineered by very unreasonable people, and the Minister's predecessor had some very unflattering things to say about the people involved in that campaign. I remind the Minister that there is a considerable consensus in the Dún Laoghaire area concerning the type of development which should take place. There is a consensus that there should be a representative harbour authority. Indeed, the Minister's party colleague, Deputy Andrews, during the general election campaign announced that an interim harbour authority had already been established. I am surprised that there is no reference to this in the Minister's statement. I would like him to clarify if an interim harbour authority has been established, if it is going to be established, who its members will be and what their terms of reference will be.

There is a consensus in the area that the car ferry should be retained which will mean car ferry terminal facilities will have to be improved. Sealink have put forward a very interesting proposal for the development and improvement of passenger facilities at the harbour. The Minister in his statement referred to the fact that following the building of the Channel Tunnel Ireland will be the only totally sea-locked member of the EC. It is surprising that the Government have not applied for EC funding for the development of passenger facilities at Dún Laoghaire and for support of the Sealink proposal which would contribute to the transport situation between this country an the rest of Europe.

Under no circumstances should the Minister allow a marina to be built within the Coal Harbour area of the harbour. That part of the harbour is used by the majority of the people in the Dún Laoghaire area. It is used by bodies like Dún Laoghaire VEC who are doing important work in training young people, many of whom are from disadvantaged homes, in water skills and water sport.

I wish to give three minutes of my time to Deputy Cotter.

Deputy Pádraic McCormack is proposing to share his time with Deputy Bill Cotter. Is that satisfactory? Agreed.

On a point of order, in view of the fact that the House is scheduled to sit until 10 p.m., could we by agreement continue the debate until 10 p.m. if there are sufficient speakers?

The Chair has an order of the House before him to which he is obliged to confirm. It was adopted by the House this morning.

Due to the limited time for this debate I intend to confine my contribution to the inland fisheries development section. Time does not permit me to go into other aspects of the Estimate as I would like to.

In 1988 after three years of cutbacks the inland fisheries budget was again cut back by £1 million and the Minister for the Marine, Deputy Daly, now deposed, introduced to this House under what later proved to be inaccurate information the famous rod licence.

I take it the Deputy is not inferring that any Member of the House or the Minister concerned told an untruth. That would not be in order.

All right. I am greatly concerned now about the laid back attitude of the Government concerning this matter and that more is not being done to solve the rod licence issue. As previous speakers said, it is the one single piece of legislation that has created havoc in the Corrib-Mask region of west Galway, a region I represent. Yesterday I put down a question to the new Minister for the Marine asking in view of the grave damage caused by the rod licence dispute if he would abolish mandatory licences for freshwater trout and coarse fishing and if he would amend the legislation before more grave damage is caused to the communities in the west and to our tourist industry. The Minister for the Marine in a written reply said that the angling licence system was introduced with a view to making funds available for the protection and development of inland fisheries and he proposed to meet the parties concerned in the dispute soon on an exploratory basis. I am not satisfied with that. Something more positive should be done.

I stated in the Seanad on 18 December 1987 that this rod licence would be resisted in the Corrib-Mask region, that we were promoting the Corrib-Mask as the greatest free fishing trout lake in Europe and it would be damaged as a result. I warned of the grave damage which would be caused when this Bill was suddenly brought before the Seanad on 18 December 1987. I am now in the Dáil for the first time. I have asked the Minister a question and I am not entirely satisfied with the reply I got. At the time I received his reply, I believe on the "News at One" programme a new Minister in the Government from my own west Galway constituency told the people of west Galway and other places not to worry, the rod licence issue would soon be fixed. I do not know if he ever heard of the agreement with the Archbishop. I heard the Archbishop of Tuam saying at one time the rod licence matter would be fixed.

I might become an Archbishop too.

Perhaps the Minister understands better how the Fianna Fáil front bench work than did the Archbishop. I ask the new Minister from my constituency, Deputy Molloy, whether during the tough negotiations which preceded the formation of this Government he used more of his energies in regard to Cabinet appointments than in an effort to solving the rod licence problem. I acknowledge that when he was in Opposition he was strongly in favour of amending the rod licence legislation. Like Deputy Taylor-Quinn, I cannot understand why we have to wait until the end of the year. Is it a case of live horse and get grass? This should not be the case in such a serious matter.

The best way to measure an Estimate for any Department is to compare it with Estimates for previous years and to consider what proportion of the money was spent on the running of the Department. Financial allocations to the Department have declined in real terms since 1985. I will quickly run through the budget since that year. The important factor is the decreasing amount spent on non-pay elements each year.

I am sorry to interrupt Deputy McCormack but the time allocated for the debate has almost expired.

In that case I will concede immediately to my colleague.

I congratulate the Minister, my constituency colleague, on his appointment to this Department. It is interesting to note that he has come from the tourism sector. Fisheries and tourism are interconnected in my constituency in that they impinge very closely on one another. We have a number of lakes in Cavan-Monaghan which are essential to the development of tourism in the two counties. I have to report that the present condition of the said lakes is quite poor from the point of view of access and availability to the visiting angler. It is essential that we take immediate steps to improve these matters. That will obviously have to be done mainly by the inland fisheries. The difficulty is that funding for the inland fisheries has been cut and is very small. We are completely impotent in regard to lake development.

I want to make a suggestion for the Minister's consideration. I am aware that community and interest groups are quite often willing to carry out work such as the provision of car parks and fishing stands and the provision of proper access to lakes. They may be able to put together the financial resources but when the work has been carried out they cannot afford the cost of public liability insurance. Once they take responsibility for improving waterways they must also ensure the safety of anglers who will use the improved facilities in the future. If the inland fisheries carried out that function they would automatically carry responsibility for that insurance. It would be tremendous if the inland fisheries would supervise such work while it was going on and see that it was carried out to proper standards. Then they would be in a position to offer insurance. This would make it possible for community groups to carry out the necessary works and improve our tourism product. Perhaps I could speak to the Minister on this matter later.

I thank contributors to this truncated debate on the Estimate for the Department of the Marine. Deputies did not have adequate time to make their contributions and I hope we will have an opportunity for a fuller debate. Judging by the contributions made, it would be to the advantage of the Department if we had time for a full discussion on the salient aspects of the Estimate.

Deputy Taylor-Quinn mentioned harbours. A very substantial effort has been made with regard to harbours. If the Deputy will look at the subhead she will see that £4,209,000 has been provided for harbours, divided between commercial harbours at Drogheda, Dundalk and Fenit, for works at Inishbofin and Inis-turk estimated to cost £1,109,000 and the fishery harbours where the provision has gone up from £1,309,000 in 1988 to £3,100,000 in 1989, providing for development works at Killybegs, Green-castle, Rossaveal, Dingle and other fishery harbours. An effort is being made and we should not brush it aside.

Quotas are based on scientific research on the availability of fish. The livelihood of fishermen and their industry is being protected very often by quota. The example usually given is the absence of herring in the Celtic Sea at the end of the seventies which was remedied by the co-operation between this Department, the fishermen and the processors. Increased herring quotas were available to the fishermen last December.

With regard to the marine institute, I did not have time to read the details into the record of the House. The Deputy will see that it has advanced further than talk. All good Christian homes should have a copy of my speech.

I have read it.

The draft heads have been agreed by the Government and given to the parliamentary draftsman.

I appreciate what Deputy Michael Higgins and Deputy Gilmore said about the problem of the rod licence. I appreciate their goodwill towards me in my efforts to solve it and, as Deputy Gilmore said, to try to realise the full potential of inland fisheries.

With regard to the Dún Laoghaire, we took over on 1 January 1989 and we have drawn up a programme of improvements. Deputy Gilmore was canvassing and campaigning and he may not have had time to see it. The programme includes improvements at the ferry terminal, provision for recreational activity and development and for the environment of the harbour. I have the list here which includes fire safety, weighbridge, baggage handling, mother's room, painting at the Carlisle Pier, electronic information, the sign for queuing cars, etc. I will be able to give the list to the Deputy later.

In my former portfolio I was fully conscious of the effect of the Channel Tunnel and of the necessity to provide good roads to the ports and to develop the ports, and a very substantial claim for Structural Funds has been lodged under the National Development Plan for the development of the ports. That has to be backed up by the development of the roads and railways on the other side of the Irish Sea. Some development is taking place in north Wales, but there is an area in south Wales which will need development to assist us to break down the competitive disadvantage we are at because of being so far from the central markets. I gather that the transport input into the total costing is 11 per cent before we put something on the European market. I see from this week's Economist that it is 25 per cent in the United States where they have wonderful freeways, air transport and so on because everything is getting cluttered up there. That is no consolation to us; we have to try to minimise the competitive disadvantage under which we labour.

Deputy McCormack spoke on the same theme as Deputies Michael D. Higgins and Gilmore. I appreciate what he said about the importance of inland fishing for tourism and for our own citizens whom we should not forget either. I do not understand why he was dissatisfied with what I said because I am making arrangements to meet all the people who are involved in that dispute next week. Perhaps he has some explanation for it.

I welcome the contribution by Deputy Bill Cotter and I welcome him to the House. He is from my constituency and I endorse his remarks about the lakes. I listened to him because he made an effort to develop a tourist committee in County Monaghan last year and to help the development of tourism in the area. There has been considerable investment in that area from which we have reaped the benefits. We need more investment particularly in access roads, stands and so on. We have had no trouble whatsoever either in the game angling or coarse fishing areas with regard to the licence. Perhaps this is natural because both counties are Border counties. Over the Border licences are paid and that kind of thing can be contagious. However, I appreciate what Deputy Cotter said. In so far as it is a pitch for further development of inland fisheries in that area, I am grateful to him.

What about the 1959 Act?

As I said at the outset, unless I am not gauging the spirit of the debate properly, the Members who have contributed and who have shown a special interest in the Department of the Marine have been showing their goodwill as an earnest of their intention to co-operate with me in doing the best job I can as Minister in this Department and I appreciate that co-operation.

Perhaps the Minister would write to me about the 1959 Act and the Ballyvaughan dispute.

All I know about Ballyvaughan is that I spent a pleasant holiday there.

Vote put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 77; Nil, 67.

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Ahern, Dermot.
  • Ahern, Michael.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Brady, Gerard.
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Brennan, Mattie.
  • Brennan, Séamus.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne, John (Wexford).
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Calleary, Seán.
  • Callely, Ivor.
  • Clohessy, Peadar.
  • Collins, Gerard.
  • Connolly, Ger.
  • Coughlan, Mary Theresa.
  • Cowen, Brian.
  • Cullimore, Séamus.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Davern, Noel.
  • Dempsey, Noel.
  • Dennehy, John.
  • de Valera, Síle.
  • Ellis, John.
  • Fahey, Frank.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Fitzgerald, Liam Joseph.
  • Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
  • Flynn, Pádraig.
  • Foxe, Tom.
  • Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Harney, Mary.
  • Hillery, Brian.
  • Hilliard, Colm.
  • Hyland, Liam.
  • Jacob, Joe.
  • Kelly, Laurence.
  • Kenneally, Brendan.
  • Kirk, Séamus.
  • Kitt, Michael P.
  • Kitt, Tom.
  • Lawlor, Liam.
  • Leonard, Jimmy.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Lyons, Denis.
  • Martin, Micheál.
  • McCreevy, Charlie.
  • McDaid, Jim.
  • McEllistrim, Tom.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Morley, P. J.
  • Noonan, Michael J.
  • (Limerick West).
  • O'Connell, John.
  • O'Dea, Willie.
  • O'Donoghue, John.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Keeffe, Ned.
  • O'Kennedy, Michael.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • O'Malley, Desmond J.
  • O'Rourke, Mary.
  • O'Toole, Martin Joe.
  • Power, Seán.
  • Roche, Dick.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Stafford, John.
  • Treacy, Noel.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Wallace, Dan.
  • Wallace, Mary.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Woods, Michael.
  • Wyse, Pearse.

Níl

  • Ahearn, Therese.
  • Allen, Bernard.
  • Barnes, Monica.
  • Barrett, Seán.
  • Barry, Peter.
  • Belton, Louis J.
  • Boylan, Andrew.
  • Bradford, Paul.
  • Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
  • Bruton, John.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Carey, Donal.
  • Connaughton, Paul.
  • Connor, John.
  • Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
  • Cotter, Bill.
  • Creed, Michael.
  • Crowley, Frank.
  • Currie, Austin.
  • Howlin, Brendan.
  • Kavanagh, Liam.
  • Kemmy, Jim.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • Lee, Pat.
  • Lowry, Michael.
  • McCartan, Pat.
  • McCormack, Pádraic.
  • McGahon, Brendan.
  • McGinley, Dinny.
  • Mac Giolla, Tomás.
  • McGrath, Paul.
  • Mitchell, Gay.
  • Nealon, Ted.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Deasy, Austin.
  • Deenihan, Jimmy.
  • De Rossa, Proinsias.
  • Doyle, Joe.
  • Dukes, Alan.
  • Durkan, Bernard.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • Farrelly, John V.
  • Fennell, Nuala.
  • Ferris, Michael.
  • Finnucane, Michael.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Gilmore, Eamon.
  • Gregory, Tony.
  • Harte, Paddy.
  • Higgins, Jim.
  • Higgins, Michael D.
  • Hogan, Philip.
  • O'Brien, Fergus.
  • O'Keeffe, Jim.
  • O'Shea, Brian.
  • O'Sullivan, Gerry.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Rabbitte, Pat.
  • Reynolds, Gerry.
  • Ryan, Seán.
  • Sheehan, Patrick J.
  • Sherlock, Joe.
  • Spring, Dick.
  • Taylor-Quinn, Madeleine.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
  • Yates, Ivan.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies V. Brady and D. Ahern; Nil, Deputies J. Higgins and Boylan.
Vote declared carried.
Barr
Roinn