asked the Taoiseach the Ministers and Ministers of State who are members of local authorities; and if he will indicate when they will resign in accordance with the general principle previously outlined by him.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Local Authority Membership.
5.
The Minister for Energy, Deputy Bobby Molloy, is the only member of the Government serving on a local authority. He is a member of Galway County Borough and Galway County Council.
The following Ministers of State are members of local authorities: Department of the Taoiseach and at the Department of Defence, Deputy Vincent Brady; Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Máire Geoghegan-Quinn; Department of the Environment, Deputy Ger Connolly and Deputy Mary Harney; Department of Industry and Commerce, Deputy Terry Leyden; Department of Agriculture and Food, Deputy Joe Walsh; Department of the Gaeltacht, Deputy Pat the Cope Gallagher; Department of Tourism and Transport, Deputy Denis Lyons; Department of Education, Deputy Frank Fahey and Department of Health, Deputy Noel Treacy.
Local government reform how are you?
Two years ago the Taoiseach initiated a policy whereby office holders would resign from local authorities as soon as conveniently possible after appointment. That was in March 1987 and he reiterated that policy last July. This is another example of the Taoiseach saying one thing and doing another. Many of the people mentioned by the Taoiseach have been office holders, not just since the last election but since 1987. Will the Taoiseach give an explanation for the total contradiction between the policy he enunciated and what happened?
The Taoiseach is decisively doing nothing.
I have been looking at some figures here and I recall that Deputy Michael Noonan——
The real Michael Noonan——
——did not tender his resignation as a member of Limerick County Council until 18 October 1983, over ten months following his appointment as a member of the Government.
(Interruptions.)
I am glad Deputy Spring came in because he did not resign for five months after his ministerial appointment.
Yes, I had hardly time to go to my constituency.
In this regard I am only primus inter pares——
Will the Taoiseach answer the question because the principle he enunciated was that office holders should resign as soon as conveniently possible after appointment? It is utterly ludicrous to be pointing a finger at Deputy Spring or Deputy Noonan who did just that. The people mentioned by the Taoiseach in his reply have continued their membership of local authorities since February 1987. Will the Taoiseach give the House an explanation as to the difference between that fact and the policy of principle he enunciated himself on two occasions to this House?
It is harder to pick councillors than Senators.
Clearly we cannot debate this matter today. Deputies might avail of another time to debate this matter in depth.
I do not really think that Deputy Jim O'Keeffe should wax too indignant about this matter because it is a problem that confronts most Governments on coming into office. If we take it that Deputy Spring continued his membership of a local authority for five months and Deputy Noonan ten months, then we could take an average of seven and a half months for Ministers of the Government to resign their membership of local authorities. I will point out to Deputy Molloy that if he resigns within seven and a half months from these local authorities he will be within the average of recent times.
What about the other Minister who has been there for two and a half months?
Deputy Barry was offering.
May I ask the Taoiseach if, as I understand it, the Minister for Energy, Deputy Molloy, announced last night that local government elections will be held next year whether he will advise those Ministers who are at present members of local authorities not to stand?
That would be one solution.
(Interruptions.)
Let us hear Deputy Taylor.
May I ask the Taoiseach, irrespective of what may have been the history of the matter in previous Governments, whether he is happy and satisfied with the present position, or does he intend to send any message or request to the Minister or Ministers of State concerned to change the present position?
All the Ministers concerned know my views, that they should resign as soon as practicable, as soon as convenient, as soon as feasible from their membership of local authorities.
(Interruptions.)
Question No. 6. There are too many Deputies offering on this question. I cannot accept all. I will facilitate Deputies who have risen in their places if they will be very brief.
(Limerick East): Would the Taoiseach agree that there is a clear conflict of interest between the duties of a Minister of State in his or her Department and in his or her local authority? In the case of somebody like Deputy Harney, is she not quite likely to end up writing letters to herself in the very near future?
She will not be let.
It is a point.
The Taoiseach will recall that the Progressive Democrats were particularly indignant on this point. I wonder if the failure of Deputy Harney to resign means that the Progressive Democrats are becoming contaminated by their coalition with Fianna Fáil, or does the Taoiseach think it could be an indication of their assimilation into Fianna Fáil?
I would say to Deputy Rabbitte, those who live in glasshouses should not throw stones. The Leader of the Deputy's own party at this very moment is double-jobbing——
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Against all that The Workers' Party ever preached to us in this House, he is now holding down the job of MEP——
Very effectively.
Probably very well; I would not take that from him. At the same time when Deputy Rabbitte has sorted out that problem he can come back to me and I will sort out mine.
Deputy McCormack, a final and brief question, please.
We are privileged to have two such eminent Ministers on our borough council from different parties and three such eminent Ministers on our county council from different parties. Would the Taoiseach think that would create any strain on the arrangement made between the two parties in Government if we had to press ahead for the resignation of those Ministers?
Deputies are extending the scope of this question.
Is the Deputy suggesting that his colleagues will make arrangements for these Ministers to nominate suitable successors? Is that what is involved?
We will handle that ourselves if the Taoiseach will handle the part he is supposed to handle.
I think we had better have another question.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
Question No. 6.