asked the Taoiseach the reason he has recently informed the National Youth Council of Ireland that their representation on the board of the NESC may be reduced from two to one; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
2.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - NESC Council Representation.
1.
asked the Taoiseach if his attention has been drawn to the positive contribution to the work of NESC made by the National Youth Council of Ireland representatives; if he proposes to maintain the representation of the National Youth Council of Ireland on the council of NESC at their present strength; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
3.
asked the Taoiseach if he will reconsider his decision to reduce the representation of the National Youth Council on NESC as this reduction would represent a vote of no confidence in our young people.
I propose to reply to Questions Nos. 1, 2 and 3 together. In renewing the mandate of the National Economic and Social Council for another five years, the Government and the social partners agreed to revise the constitution of the council so as to provide for a wider and better contribution from the independent members. The revised constitution, therefore, provides for six independent members appointed by the Government, of whom one is nominated by the National Youth Council. The Government and the social partners were satisfied that one representative from the National Youth Council, with an alternate, could fully convey the views of the council.
I would point out, also, that under the new constitution of the NESC, bodies with one representative only include the Construction Industry Federation and the Irish Co-operative Organisation Society who, since the NESC do not conduct their business on a voting basis, are not constrained in presenting their views by having only one member on the NESC.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that those bodies which are represented by only one member on the council represent or bring to the work of the NESC the experience of a fairly narrow range of operations? That could be said, I think, of the Construction Industry Federation and also the ICOS. Would the Taoiseach not also agree that those who are nominated by the National Youth Council of Ireland represent or can bring to the work of the NESC the experience of a very wide range of activities and would he not, therefore, agree that would be a better input to the work of the council rather than the operation of one single member?
I do not think so. Only six places are nominated by the Government. It seems to me, and to most of the other people concerned, that as long as the National Youth Council would have a voice, with an alternate if required, there would be no restraint or constraint on them voicing the views of the youth council on the NESC. I would point out that when they had two members, those two members very rarely attended. More often than not they were represented by only one member.
Could the Taoiseach tell us what other changes, if any, are being made in the representation of other bodies on the NESC?
I can give the Deputy the full composition as it will be. One of the principal changes is that there will now be a representative from the European Commission. He will not be a member but he will have a right of audience there and he has already taken up this offer by us. If the Deputy wishes, I will give a list of the representation. The independent members nominated by the Government are Michael Conlon, Dr. Miriam Hederman-O'Brien, Mr. Conor McCarthy, Mr. Colm McCarthy——
I would just like the numbers representing each group.
There are six independent members nominated by the Government.
What about the other groups?
There are two members from the Confederation of Irish Industry; one from the Construction Industry Federation; two from the Federation of Irish Employers; five from the Irish Congress of Trade Unions; one from the Irish Co-Operative Organisation Society; two from the ICMSA; two from the IFA; one member from the European Commission and the Secretary of the Department of Finance, the Secretary of the Department of Industry and Commerce and the Secretary of the Department of Labour. On the whole it is a good balance. I do not think there is any great disadvantage to the National Youth Council in just having one member. If there was, I would not have made any change, particularly in view of the fact that the National Youth Council were normally represented by only one member during the last NESC.
Arising from the Taoiseach's last reply to the various supplementaries that have been put to him, I would like to ask him two questions. Why he decided to reduce the NYCI's representation from two to one and was he not aware that in a letter of 9 November from the NYCI to him they expressed dismay at having their representation on the NESC reduced from two members to one?
I am aware of that but I do not think it is a matter for dismay. I do not think anybody should get unduly excited about this. The National Youth Council of Ireland are represented by a full member with the provision for an alternate and that should not inhibit them in any way, particularly as I have said as the whole purpose of the NESC is to get as broad a spectrum of views as possible.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that, whether in Galway or at the NESC, if people express dismay at how they believe they are being treated, that dismay is real whether the Taoiseach considers it to be justified or not? In this instance the NYCI have expressed very clearly to various parties represented in this House their dismay, which is a repeat of that expressed in a letter to the Taoiseach. If the Taoiseach accepts that their dismay is real, can he justify his reason for reducing their representation from two to one and perhaps indicate that reason to the House?
The reason is very simple. Basically, the Government nominate only six places and I have tried to get as broad a cross-section of views as possible. Secondly, I think one representative from the National Youth Council of Ireland is perfectly adequate to express the views of the council. Basically there is no need for two representatives, particularly when I am confined to six for the rest of the community.
Could I ask the Taoiseach——
Order, I want to call Deputy Jimmy Deenihan who also has tabled a question on this subject.
I would like to ask the Taoiseach to confirm the accuracy of a statement issued from his Department on 10 November, that the reason given for the cut in membership was that the National Youth Council of Ireland had a very poor attendance record at the meetings——
No.
So, that statement was not accurate? That was the reason given by the Taoiseach's Department.
It is a very simple matter. As I say, I have six places and I want to try to use those six places to get as broad a spectrum of views as possible on the NESC. I do not think that two members from the National Youth Council would be any more valuable to them than one. One out of six is not a bad representation.
A Cheann Comhairle——
Order, please. A number of Deputies are offering. I appreciate there are three questions tabled, nevertheless, we must have finality in this matter. A final supplementary from Deputy Deenihan.
First, I would like to confirm that the NYCI were represented at 35 meetings out of——
I am sorry, Deputy Deenihan, but we must proceed by way of supplementary questions.
May I ask the Taoiseach one final question? Given the fact that the representation of the National Youth Council on the NESC has now been decreased would the Taoiseach permit the involvement of the National Youth Council in phase 2 of the Programme for National Recovery and allow them to play some role in the Central Review Committee as a full participating social partner?
That is extending the scope of the question.
Will the Taoiseach consider that?
That is a constructive suggestion.
May I take it that the import of what the Taoiseach is saying to the House is that he considers the representation of the NYCI on the NESC, with two members out of the discretionary number of six, to be excessive and that they are only entitled to one?
That is putting it rather tendentiously, which is not my intention. I do not attach any particular significance to numbers in this regard.
The PDs do.
What I am saying is that I have only six places and I tried to use those six places to get a wide sweep of opinion into the affairs of the NESC. I think all Deputies will agree with that. There would be no advantage to the National Youth Council in having two persons out of six, rather than one. One person, with provision for an alternate, should surely be in a position to give full expression to the views of the National Youth Council on the NESC. I do not think the National Youth Council would gain anything by having two instead of one.
I call on Deputy Creed, to be followed by Deputy Mac Giolla and Deputy Dukes.
I wish to express my disappointment at the reduction in the representation of the National Youth Council from two places to one by the Taoiseach. Given the importance of the National Economic and Social Council as a body with considerable influence on Government policy, the fact that representation of youth has been reduced and that the youth of the country have been most affected by Government policy during the past few years, that decision will lead to a further reduction in the impact of youth on Government policy. With emigration now running at 46,000 per annum and high youth unemployment, it is vital that young people have some influence on Government policy.
Question ought to be more relevant, Deputy.
Would the Taoiseach clarify that he has reduced the representation from two out of five to one out of six and if this was done with or without consultation with NYCI? Secondly, who are the social partners? Are the youth council and the youth federation considered to be social partners, whom the Taoiseach says were consulted before this change was made in the constitution?
No. The discussion was of a general nature, mainly with employers and trade unions.
Are they the social partners?
The social partners, for the purpose or the Programme for National Recovery are, as the Deputy knows, the trade unions, employers and the farmers.
Which ones?
The young people are not social partners.
I am trying to make it clear that young people have representation. They have representation of one out of six.
It used to be two out of five.
Yes, but surely two out of five was an unnecessary representation. In my view there is nothing that one good representative from the National Youth Council cannot do.
Would the Taoiseach agree——
I am sorry, Deputy, but I want to call Deputy Dukes for a final supplementary.
I am repeating myself.
This question is taking up too much time.
Would the Taoiseach confirm for me, and I will be very brief, Sir that the National Youth Council is the only body on the NESC whose representation has been reduced?
I could not say that offhand but it may well be so.
It is correct.
Everyone else remains the same.
I keep making the point that I have only six places to give representation to all the sectors.
Has the representation of any other body been reduced? Yes or no?
Next question, please; Question No. 4.
If it was not broken, why fix it? Was the Taoiseach not happy with the way it was?
It had to be reorganised. For instance, the construction industry had to be represented on it.
It did not have to be changed.
Question No. 4, please.