Vol. 395 No. 1
1 Mr. Dukes asked the Taoiseach the projected number of visits by him and by his Ministers between now and the end of June 1990 on EC business to (a) EC destinations (b) other European destinations (c) African destinations (d) Middle East destinations (e) North American destinations and (f) other destinations; and the projected extra cost of travelling to those destinations in a leased aircraft with Air Corps crew rather than by scheduled airline service.
I would refer the Deputy to the Calendar of Council Meetings for the Irish Presidency which has been placed in the Library. This and other arrangements indicate that there are 67 or so meetings at ministerial level in Europe, Africa and elsewhere in the world already scheduled for the period of the Irish Presidency. In addition, there will be bilateral visits abroad by members of the Government and Ministers of State but, given the evolving nature of EC business, it is impossible to give details at this stage or to make the estimate sought in the latter part of the question — even if it were possible for Ministers to attend the meetings using a scheduled airline service.
Is the Taoiseach aware that during Ireland's 1975 Presidency of the Council the then Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Garret FitzGerald, made over 160 flights abroad and travelled an estimated 60,000 miles in Europe, Africa, Asia and North America without the use of a Government jet? Is the Taoiseach not further aware that during the 1984 Presidency, the then President of the General Affairs Council, Deputy Peter Barry, used the Government jet only to get to European departure points when his travels were outside Europe and that it was all done using scheduled airlines without the slightest disruption to the programme of the Presidency and without excessive absence by the Minister in question from this House?
I hope the Fine Gael Party will not allow themselves to be branded as the horse and buggy party in this connection. Even since Deputy Barry's time as Minister for Foreign Affairs the size and scope of the European Community's participation in world affairs has enlarged enormously. I say quite frankly that it would be impossible for Ministers today to attempt to encompass the duties of their Presidencies without this additional facility.
Yesterday I gave the House an indication of one series of journeys which the Minister for Foreign Affairs has to undertake. During the first week in February the Minister for Foreign Affairs will go to Brussels, Geneva, Brussels, Ottawa, Brunei and Kuching. He will visit all these places practically within the course of one week. At the same time the Minister for Industry and Commerce will visit New York, Chicago and New York and the Minister for Tourism and Transport will visit Washington and Orlando. These are just a couple of samples——
Will it be on Community work?
I am not finished yet.
They will need three or four jets.
Even making the maximum use of scheduled airlines, it would not be possible to meet the demands of these schedules without this additional facility. I made the point in the House yesterday that the Government jet we have — members of the Opposition will be well aware of this from their time in Government — was already fully extended before the Presidency commenced at all. In fact, it was not meeting our needs and an additional facility was required. After careful consideration and taking all the extension of activity into account we decided that this was probably the only way of meeting our obligations. Certainly in my view it is the most expeditious and economic way of meeting them.
I have before me a memorandum prepared for the previous Government by the then Minister for Transport dated 21 June 1983 which states: "The study also shows that the jet has advantages such as security and flexibility of timetable on which no monetary value can be placed but which are relevant in any study of this nature." I suggest to the Deputies opposite that this finding applies ten times more today because of the enormous extension which has taken place in the Community's affairs and activities.
I can only repeat — and I ask the Opposition to be sensible about this — we did not take this decision lightly or because we had any grandiose ambitions. We examined the matter very carefully and we took a decision based on a realistic assessment of the situation. This additional jet is leased only for the period of the Presidency, not from the day before or until the day after. I believe it is a very sensible decision. Indeed, this decision was almost dictated to us by circumstances. I ask Deputies to have a bit of common sense about it and to accept that in the view of the Government it was the only way to tackle the almost impossible demands which are now made on Ministers as President of the different Councils.
I have to thank the Taoiseach and congratulate him on that very lengthy disquisition. I am bound to say that he seems to be very sensitive about this issue. Does the Taoiseach not understand that the question I put to him, in conjunction with the question I put to him yesterday, did not relate to the need for a Government jet, the need for which is beyond dispute, to add to the capacity which is already there — that aircraft is the most used aircraft of its type flying anywhere in the world — but simply asked whether the Government needed another jet with transatlantic capability.
Yes.
Does the Taoiseach not agree that the vast majority of the journeys Ministers will make outside Europe can be planned around scheduled airline flights? Would he not further agree that if one of the Government jets is being used to any great extent for lengthy trips such as the one to be undertaken by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, it will therefore not be available to other Ministers to go about their Presidential duties? Can the Taoiseach give me any indication of what proportion of the use of this new mysterious jet, of which only one small photograph apparently exists, will be in travelling outside Europe?
I want to dissuade Members from the notion that they may debate this matter now. It was also adverted to at Question Time yesterday and I want to deal with other questions also.
I am glad that Deputy Dukes is narrowing this question down now to the single issue of the use of this jet on transatlantic trips.
If the Taoiseach had read my question properly he would have understood that from the beginning.
It is early days yet but the new jet has already been across the Atlantic at least twice, and this is an indication of the ways things are going. The broad strategy to be applied is that the smaller jet will be used for what we might nowadays call, in present circumstances, local work, that is, visits to London and Europe and the new jet will be used for longer journeys where there is a larger complement of officials. That is important. As the Deputies themselves know from their ministerial experience, the small Army jet that we have all been used to is very restrictive in the number of officials it can take. I instance the Strasbourg Summit when the majority of officials had to waste an enormous amount of time travelling the day before by scheduled services and having to come back the day after the same way. The agenda of Ministers and officials these days is so packed that there should be no argument about this.
The few instances I gave the Deputy I am sure he will be very relieved to know — do not include any travelling by myself because my schedule of visits has not yet been finally settled. Most of those visits will be transatlantic. That is another dimension, but I am absolutely convinced as a practical person that this represents a good practical solution by the Government to this almost horrendous problem of carrying out the obligations of the Presidency at this time.
Can we deal——
May I ask a brief question?
I have already devoted over ten minutes to this question.
May I ask a very short question?
The Deputy's question will have to be very brief. I propose to pass on to other questions quite quickly.
Eastern Europe will be included.
Can the Taoiseach tell us if he will facilitate hitch-hikers? Would he care to give me a lift occasionally? Given my tight schedule, would he give me the odd lift to Brussels?
