Vol. 396 No. 2
16 Mr. Byrne asked the Minister for Social Welfare the reason for the delay in his Department in processing and making decisions in social welfare appeals, particularly in disability cases; if he is satisfied that he has sufficient numbers of referees; and if he has any plans to expedite procedures.
As already announced to the House, the Government have approved the setting up of a new separate social welfare appeals office. The necessary legislative changes are currently under consideration with a view to inclusion in the forthcoming Social Welfare Bill.
Meanwhile, the administrative arrangements to set up the new office are proceeding. These include the appointment of additional staff. In this context, it will be necessary to review a number of aspects of the current appeals system, including the manner in which appeals are processed. The problems of delays occurring at present in certain areas — for example, disability benefit appeals — will be addressed with a view to devising procedures for the new office which will minimise delays and inconvenience to claimants.
I am satisfied that the number of medical referees serving at present is adequate. I wish to assure the House that appeal cases are given priority by medical referees.
Will the Minister agree that under the review he is now starting all letters and recommendations, particularly of medical specialists, for all claimants be taken as gospel? In other words, where a specialist provides medical evidence in respect of a claimant's disability that should be taken on board as fact by the Minister and the practice of leaving people waiting until the proper specialist to investigate the claimant's case is available should cease.
The specialist's report is one element in a decision and can be and often is an overriding one. Sometimes it is not the overriding consideration because a specialist may say a person has a particular condition which may debar him from a particular kind of work, but not from other kinds of work. All these things arise. The Deputy is familiar with cases which come to his clinics and to his attention in that way. Basically I agree with the Deputy that the specialist's report is a major element in any consideration of the ability of a person to work or of a disability.
I welcome the Minister's previous statement about the appeals agency he has set up. We welcome it on all sides of the House. When using the new appeals procedure, will the Minister ensure that medical referees at local level use medical facilities to enable them to carry out a proper investigation in respect of medical appeals? Arbitrary decisions are made with no recourse whatever to a medical examination except for sitting down in front of the applicant and making a medical decision.
It is open to, and in many cases there is a report from, the GP which may be fairly clear to the medical referee and the case may not, therefore, need much further examination. That is one situation in which decisions can be taken very quickly. It is not always appreciated by the claimant.
Particularly if the claimant fails in his appeal.
Particularly so, and one can understand the embarrassment that may arise for a GP in some cases, but that is the formal system and the way in which it works. From time to time we try to improve matters any way we can. We are conscious of the points made by Deputies in relation to this area. I am also conscious of the point Deputy Ferris made about facilities and rooms for that purpose. Where we have any new offices we are putting in very fine facilities, but there are areas where those facilities are not available. I have the points made noted.
I want to make sure that when the new appeals agency are in place, instead of interviewing people on medical grounds in bedrooms of hotels and otherwise, outpatient clinics in hospitals which are idle now will be used. There are facilities there for proper medical examination.
I have noted what the Deputy has said.
Will the Minister agree that some of the cursory examinations done by his medical referees are insulting to the claimant? For example, will he agree that somebody wearing a medical corset being asked to touch his or her toes is outrageous and should not be tolerated? Will he agree that the medical referees should be trained in their approach to claimants that in many cases they are arrogant, suspicious and unsympathetic and that they would best serve his Department's public image by being given a training course in human relations?
I must reject the general statement the Deputy made about them being insulting, arrogant or otherwise. Generally speaking, they carry out the job, which is not easy, on behalf of the people and under the legislation passed by this House. It is never easy to tell somebody that it is time for him to go back to work or that he is fit. I have a very bad back and I carry on. People come to me saying they have a bit of bother with their back, that they have not been working for so many years and that they will never work again. If you get that into your mind you probably never will work again.
The Minister does not have to do physical work.
The Deputy should hold his fire for the next session. Deputy Byrne has some idea of what we are talking about. I do not think Deputy Bruton has at this stage.
The Deputy walks in the door and starts to join in just for the sport. We are having a sensible discussion by way of supplementaries and Deputy Bruton walks in and starts to fire off.
Somebody has to make the decision at the end of the day — we discussed this before Deputy Bruton came in — whether the person is available for lighter work or if there are other kinds of work he can do, but not to say he is not available for any kind of work. Someone has to make that decision and we entrust that to the medical referees. They are qualified people, some with higher qualifications than others. I said earlier that I would arrange for the medical referees to participate in the courses we have on dealing with the public and on relations with the public generally. That was raised by another Deputy earlier and we discussed it and I said I would do that. Arrangements are in train. I am conscious of some of the difficulties Deputies may come across and I am prepared to do something about them.
That disposes of questions for today.
On a point of order, Sir, I understand you have ruled out two questions put by Deputy Jim O'Keeffe in regard to the content of last night's "Today Tonight" programme. In view of that decision, which we accept, I wish to give notice that Fine Gael are to renew their request for a Dáil debate on this subject.
Yes.
