Proinsias De Rossa
Ceist:3 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if he will outline the matters discussed at his recent meeting with President George Bush; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Taoiseach's Visit to USA.
Dick Spring
Ceist:4 Mr. Spring asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement regarding his recent visit to the United States of America.
Michael Noonan
Ceist:5 Mr. Noonan (Limerick East) asked the Taoiseach if, when travelling to and from the United States last week, he flew directly from Dublin to the United States and returned from the United States directly to Dublin; and if any intermediate stop was made in either the outward or inward journey for refuelling or other purposes.
Alan M. Dukes
Ceist:6 Mr. Dukes asked the Taoiseach if he has any plans for a meeting with the President of the United States at Camp David.
A Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 to 6, inclusive, together.
I travelled to the United States for an official working visit which took place on 27 and 28 February and returned to Ireland on 1 March.
The text of the joint statement issued following my meeting with President Bush and Secretary of State Baker has been laid before both Houses. The joint statement sets out the arrangements for strengthening EC/US relations at the highest and other levels which, as President of the European Council, I said I would be recommending to the other Heads of State or Government of the Council.
We also discussed a number of other important issues. We identified co-operation in the fight against international drug trafficking and the international movement of drug funds and our continuing efforts to protect the environment as areas suitable for co-operation. There will be follow-up contracts in the areas of common interest.
I also reviewed with the President and Secretary of State the evolving situation in Central and Eastern Europe and the question of German unification.
I raised a number of bilateral issues including immigration, US taxation laws and briefed the President and Secretary of State on the situation in Northern Ireland. I expressed my appreciation for constructive US interest and support on Anglo-Irish relations.
No further meeting is planned at present but I have invited the President to pay an official visit to Ireland at a convenient time.
I availed of my visit to Washington to attend a meeting of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and to talk to a number of Senators, including Majority Leader Senator Mitchell, Senator Kennedy and Senator Claiborne Pell as well as Speaker Foley and other prominent Congressmen. I met US Trade Representative Hills and William Reilly, Head of the Environmental Protection Agency, who offered full assistance and co-operation in the establishment of our Environmental Protection Agency and the implementation of our environment action programme.
At all of these meetings the importance of enhancing relations between the US and the EC at both political and economic level was discussed and I found a ready acceptance of this view and a very favourable attitude to the Community's role and development.
I greatly valued my discussions with the President, Secretary of State and other American leaders which I found to be extremely positive and encouraging and particularly significant in developing the closer US/EC links which, in my view, are essential to the stability and future development of Europe and the world.
I will call the Deputies in the order in which their questions appear on the Order Paper.
Does the Taoiseach consider that the arrangement agreed between himself and President Bush will be acceptable to the other 11 member states of the EC? Does he expect there will be any objections to any aspect of it? Did he raise questions with President Bush concerning the continued support of the US for the Contras in and on the borders of Nicaragua and for the Pol Pot element in Cambodia, both of which have serious destabilishing effects on world politics?
I have no wish to pre-empt the decision of the Heads of State or Government, but what I achieved in agreement with the US President and Secretary of State was broadly in line with what was discussed at the Foreign Ministers' meeting before I left. I did not discuss the other issues. When I was there the results of the Nicaraguan elections had just come in and the situation was being assessed by everybody concerned.
In the Taoiseach's discussions with President Bush on the events in Central and Eastern Europe, was the question of the border of Poland discussed? Did the American President give a view on the future borders of Poland? Secondly, I understand from comments made that the Taoiseach went to Washington as the first part of a visit, the second leg being Moscow. Is the second leg still on?
Publicly while I was there the US President gave his view on the German-Polish border question. Chancellor Kohl had been in Washington just before I arrived and then the whole situation was discussed and the views of both the Chancellor and the President were enunciated, so I was fully aware of what the President's views were on the situation with regard to the German-Polish border.
Is the Deputy referring to a visit by me to Moscow? That is on the table but there is nothing definite so far.
Deputy Michael Noonan (Limerick East), should he wish to intervene.
(Limerick East): The Taoiseach decided to reply to Question No. 5 in my name in the context of his replies to other questions but made no reference to Question No. 5 in his reply. Since he did not refer to it in the main reply, will he confirm that on his flights to and from the US he flew directly from Dublin in the first instance to Canada and returned direct from Washington? Does he consider that flight plan was in breach of the spirit of Government policy on Shannon Airport? Is he aware that he is the first Taoiseach on an official visit to the US not to visit Shannon in the course of the outgoing or return journey? Will he agree that his assurances recently on the status of Shannon Airport must be now viewed as advice to “do what I say but do not do what I do”?
I think the general public will find it revealing that Deputy Spring and Deputy De Rossa questioned the substance of my meeting and the issues discussed whereas both Fine Gael questions are addressed to the trivia related to my visit.
(Limerick East): Answer the question.
The answer to the question, if it really merits the time of the House, is "yes"——
(Limerick East): The Taoiseach is obliged to answer questions put down to him.
The aeroplane on which I was transported to the US——
(Limerick East): State airline.
——stopped to refuel at Goose Bay, Newfoundland, on the way out.
(Limerick East): A good choice, the way the Taoiseach made an ass of himself.
Let us hear the Taoiseach's reply without interruption.
I am not sure what brand of petrol was supplied but I am sure it was adequate and satisfactory. We then proceeded at a height, I think, of 35,000 feet and landed, a very gentle, excellent landing by my Air Corps pilots at Andrews Air Force Base——
(Limerick East): People in Shannon will not wear this.
——where I was greeted with great ceremony——
(Interruptions.)
——by a General of the US Air Force. I was whisked from my aeroplane into a helicopter, known in the US as Air Force 1 — I know the Deputy is going to say Air Force 1 is an aeroplane. It is also a helicopter — and I was brought from there and landed by the reflection pool just beside the Washington Memorial.
(Limerick East): Is the Taoiseach making fun of Shannon Airport?
I am making fun of the Deputy——
(Interruptions.)
——and his concentration on ridiculous trivia.
(Limerick East): Are you not the first Taoiseach ever who did not fly into Shannon and out again——
Without taking from any of the matters that may have been discussed between himself and President Bush or their importance, can I ask the Taoiseach why he did not take the opportunity of these discussions to raise with President Bush Ireland's concern about the US proposals in regard to agriculture in the current round of world trade talks which proposals, if brought into effect, would have a devastating effect on Ireland's largest industry? Let me express my surprise that, notwithstanding the very comprehensive nature of the Taoiseach's talks and their duration, he did not raise this matter. Will he avail of the next opportunity, if he has one, to be sure to raise the question of Ireland's concern about the US approach to world trade as far as agriculture is concerned?
I am glad to be able to assure the Deputy that the President and I did discuss the GATT negotiations and the agricultural situation arising in connection with those GATT negotiations.
Why did the Taoiseach not consider it necessary to refer to that either in the communiqué or in reply to today's question? Is the matter of agriculture and its treatment in the world trade talks so unimportant that in a lengthy reply the Taoiseach could leave it out?
In my reply I said that we also discussed a number of other issues. That covers a wide variety of subjects all of which I regard as equally important.
So Irish agriculture is an anonymous footnote as far as these talks are concerned——
This should not lead to argument or disorder.
The Taoiseach has been ridiculous for the last five minutes wasting the time of the House.
The President and I discussed the question of the agricultural issues between the US and the Community at some length.
What conclusions did you reach?
I will answer that question.
A brief supplementary from Deputy Spring and Deputy De Rossa. Deputies, I want to dissuade you from the notion of debating this matter today.
The conclusion we reached was that in most cases it was desirable if at all possible to have an early conclusion of the discussions between the Community and the US on that and all other matters. If the Deputy wants, I will give him a blow-by-blow, item by item account of everything I discussed with Representative Carla Hills, with Mr. O'Reilly, the head of the Environmental Department and with the majority leader of the Senate and so on and so on.
May I ask——
I have endeavoured to comprise it all into a reasonable answer to the House today and I think I have succeeded in doing that.
Deputy Spring has been called and will be heard.
May I ask the Taoiseach if he raised a matter which is of major importance to many families in this country in either his bilateral discussions with President Bush or with other leaders in Washington, that is, the question of Irish immigrants and their status in the United States? If he raised this matter, did he get any satisfaction as to what might be done for them?
I certainly did raise it. I raised it with the President and, in fact, any time I have met the President of the United States I have raised that matter because I am aware how important an issue it is. I also discussed it with leaders on The Hill. There is a general understanding of the problem of the young people and a wish to be helpful. In fact, as the Deputy is probably aware, there is legislation coming before Congress now which, hopefully, will make a significant contribution.
Is the Taoiseach concerned, as I am by the statement of President Bush that he regards the United States as a European power? Did he indicate his dissatisfaction with that point of view? Did he discuss with the President the advisability and requirement of most people that NATO and the Warsaw Pact should be wound down and that the United States or any other major country should no longer involve themselves in European power?
I think the Deputy's transformation in these matters is not yet complete.
Is America a European power?
I, with practically everybody else in the European Community, warmly welcome continuing United States interest in the Community and its affairs, its support for European integration. We also warmly welcome the contribution which the United States is making through CSCE and other areas to promote the general security and stability of Europe.
In the course of his reply the Taoiseach said he visited the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Houses of Congress. May I ask the Taoiseach if he realises that a visiting head of Government to this country could not do the same as we do not have a foreign affairs committee of this House?
I want to bring these questions to finality. I think I have given Deputy De Rossa quite a lot of leeway in this matter but if he has a very brief supplementary question, I will hear it.
My question related to the United States as a European power and was not a question of whether they have an interest——
The Deputy is engaging in an argument.
——in European power in the same way as in Central America — interference in European affairs.
In his reply the Taoiseach said that a number of other issues were raised in the discussions. Did any of the US representatives raise the question of direct flights to Dublin?
No.