Vol. 396 No. 9
1 Mr. Barry asked the Taoiseach if, in view of interpretations that are being put on the Supreme Court decision of 1 March 1990 regarding the Anglo-Irish Agreement, he will confirm that it is the Government's view that unification can only come about by peaceful means and with the consent of a majority in Northern Ireland.
2 Mr. Spring asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement regarding Articles 2 and 3 of the Constitution in light of the recent Supreme Court judgment in the McGimpsey case; and if he is prepared to respond to overtures from Unionist leaders to discuss the possible repeal of those Articles.
3 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if the Government intend to propose any amendment to Articles 2 and 3 of the Constitution in light of the judgment of the Supreme Court on 1 March 1990 taken by Christopher and Michael McGimpsey; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1, 2 and 3 together.
The Government have noted the Supreme Court decision referred to. In reply to a Question in the House on 3 May 1988, I referred Deputies to paragraph 5.7 of the report of the New Ireland Forum, which was endorsed by all the parties participating in it. This states:
The particular structure of political unity which the forum would wish to see established in a unitary state, achieved by agreement and consent, embracing the whole island of Ireland and providing irrevocable guarantees for the protection and preservation of both the Nationalist and Unionist identies.
As I said at the time it is not possible, at Question Time, to attempt to set out any exhaustive set of steps towards achievement of the form of unity wished for by the parties to the Forum, except to say that such measures would in my view have to meet the requirements set out in chapter 5 of the Forum report.
These requirements would, among others, include:
a total cessation of violence which can have no place in the building of the Ireland of the future that we all desire; constructive dialogue with Unionists in Northern Ireland; accommodation of the two traditions, their aspirations and their loyalties; an all-round constitutional conference to formulate new structures.
The Government's policy and actions under the Anglo-Irish Agreement are in accordance with those requirements and I have made it clear that I would be willing to meet Unionists at any time to discuss their concerns. Such a meeting should take place without preconditions and without prejudice to the Unionist position on the Agreement.
I accept what the Taoiseach has said and it sums up my point of view. I should like him to reply clearly to the subject matter of my question. The Government, and all the parties in the House, want to achieve the unity of Ireland only by peaceful means and with the consent of the majority in Northern Ireland and I should like to know if the Taoiseach will agree with that.
I have given my position on the matter which I think is absolutely clear.
Does the Taoiseach accept what I have said, that all the parties in the House, and the Government, only wish to see the unity of Ireland achieved by peaceful means and with the consent of a majority in Northern Ireland?
That is inherent in what I said.
Does the Taoiseach agree with me?
I make my own statements.
We cannot indulge in repetition.
My question was quite specific and the Taoiseach has not given his response to it.
Does the Deputy agree with my statement?
I do, but I want the Taoiseach to answer my question.
I agree with what Deputy Barry has said in relation to peace and the consent of the majority. In relation to the recent decision of the Supreme Court, the fact that as far back as 1965 when the Constitutional Review Committee recommended that Articles 2 and 3 be changed, and the fact that the Unionist members have constantly stated they have problems in relation to Articles 2 and 3, I should like to ask the Taoiseach if the Government will now consider bringing in amendments or consider changes in relation to Articles 2 and 3.
No, the Government have no such plans.
I should like to ask the Taoiseach if has examined the implications of the Supreme Court decision and its impact on Article 1 of the Anglo-Irish Agreement. The Taoiseach referred to the New Ireland Forum but he will be aware that the Anglo-Irish Agreement is agreement between two states. The Anglo-Irish Agreement clearly states that any change in the status of Northern Ireland would only come about with the consent of the majority of the people of Northern Ireland and yet the Supreme Court decision is that Articles 2 and 3 place an obligation on the State to seek unity.
May I appeal for brevity?
Does the Taoiseach feel that there is a contradiction between those three Articles? Will he indicate if that has been considered? What is his response to that?
No, I do not see any inconsistency. As I see it, the Supreme Court have outlined the position as I have always understood it to be.
In view of the fact that it has been declared by virtually all parties in the House that they regard Articles 2 and 3 as the declaration of an aspiration, and that the Supreme Court have said that it is a legal responsibility on the State to pursue those aspirations or objectives, will the Taoiseach consider, bearing in mind that the Unionist leadership have constantly stated that both Articles are offensive to them, reviewing how those Articles may be changed to declare themselves as an aspiration and not a legal obligation, as the Supreme Court have stated?
As I have said, I regard the decision of the Supreme Court as outlining the position as I have always understood it to be.
While welcoming the fact, as I understand it, that the Taoiseach will have an opportunity in the very near future to meet Unionists. I suggest that he say to them that, in circumstances where political agreement was reached as a result of negotiations and that that package of agreement was put to the people North and South in referenda, that endorsement of the package would have fundamental implications for existing constitutional arrangements, including Articles 2 and 3 and that in those circumstances, the best thing the Unionists could do would be to immediately enter into discussions with himself and with the other Nationalist constitutional party?
I accept the conclusions.
A Cheann Comhairle——
I will call the Deputies who have questions tabled for some brief supplementaries.
May I ask the Taoiseach in view of the difference of opinion offered by the Supreme Court a fortnight ago and that offered by them in 1977, if he would consider establishing a committee of this House to look at the Constitution again to see, in the light of the contradiction between those two interpretations, whether any amendments could be necessary?
That seems to be a separate matter.
I would like to repeat my statement made at the time of the New Ireland Forum — and the Deputy will recall it — if we had a situation where both parts of Ireland could be brought together in some way that would certainly call for an entirely new Constitution.
I am talking, in the narrow sense, about the difference of interpretation given by the Supreme Court in 1977 and again this year. Would the Taoiseach, in those circumstances, set up an all party committee to look again at the Constitution to see if amendments are necessary or could be proposed with the agreement of all Members of the House?
I am not sure that would be appropriate at this stage. It is something that can be kept in mind.
Would the Taoiseach consider it seriously?
Yes.
Is the Taoiseach saying that in future discussions in an all-Ireland context he is prepared to look at Articles 2 and 3 in the context of the Unionist difficulties?
Yes, I would be prepared to do so and I think it would be necessary to bring forward an entirely new Constitution in the context of unity or some such arrangement.
Would the Taoiseach be prepared to recommend it at this time?
Deputy Proinsias De Rossa for a final brief, relevant supplementary question.
In view of the Supreme Court decision and the Taoiseach's repeated requests to Unionists to come and meet him, can the Taoiseach inform the House whether he intends to meet Ken Maginnis and the McGimpsey Brothers to discuss the implications of the supreme Court decision.
My invitation to the representatives of the Unionist tradition is premanently on the table to discuss with me anything they would wish.
