Vol. 397 No. 1
6 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Finance the number of reports commissioned by the Government in the context of the possible privatisation of Irish Life plc; the terms of reference given to the consultants; the total cost of these reports; the firms to which money was paid; if it is intended to publish these reports; when a final decision will be made on the future of Irish Life plc; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
8 Mr. T. O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Finance if he will give a report on the Government's deliberations in respect of Irish Life plc; and if he will publish all reports made available to him on the matter.
40 Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for Finance the options being considered by the Government in respect of Irish Life plc; whether the consultants employed by the Government were asked to consider ways and means of increasing the contribution made by that company to the Exchequer while remaining as a public company; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
77 Mr. Barry asked the Minister for Finance if the Government have yet decided on the privatisation of Irish Life plc.
I propose to take Priority Question No. 6 and Questions Nos. 8, 40 and 77 together.
I refer the Deputies to the statement made by me on 12 March 1990 which outlines the Government's intentions in relation to Irish Life. The statement makes it clear that the changes being proposed are to enable the company to develop as a major Irish-based international financial institution.
The Government considered all relevant options in relation to the company before a decision was made and, in particular, the comprehensive reports of the consultants employed to examine the restructuring of Irish Life and the options available to Government after restructuring. The consultants were firmly of the view that the State's shareholding should be substantially reduced in the interests of the development of the company.
Deputies will understand that the reports of the consultants contain sensitive commercial data and it would not be advisable to publish the reports. The House will, however, have a full opportunity to discuss the proposed restructuring when the necessary legislation is put before it.
In relation to the specific queries raised by Deputy Rabbitte the position is as follows.
The consultants were jointly led by National City Brokers and Goldman Sachs (UK) and included Arthur Andersen, accountants, A & L Goodbody, solicitors, and Slaughter and May, UK solicitors.
Slaughter is very appropriate.
Slaughter in May.
Slaughter and May. The terms of reference for the study were: to review the restructuring proposals in the light of Irish Life's potential for development; to examine the legal aspects of the proposals from the point of view of their consistency, in particular, with insurance law and company law in Ireland and the UK; to assess the viability of the actuarial scheme to be put to the courts for the transfer of business and the balance struck in the proposals between the shareholders' and policyholders' interests; and to review the options open to the Minister in relation to his shareholding in the company after restructuring.
Four final reports were submitted by the consultants at different stages dealing with the various aspects of the terms of reference. A total payment of £269,394, excluding VAT, was made to the consultants.
Does the Minister not agree that it is deplorable that he should be continuing the pattern of secrecy that has surrounded the entire question of privatisation? May I ask the Minister specifically to rethink his decision not to publish the consultants' report, having regard to the pattern that has been established in the case of Tara Mines Limited, which also involved NCB, the principal of which happens to be, incidentally, a close associate of the Taoiseach, and the case of the ICI currently being heard by the High Court in camera and the right of the people to know what it is proposed to do with Irish Life?
I cannot accept what the Deputy is saying. Everything is out in the open. I am sure the Deputy appreciates that before one attempts to float any company on the market they would not be foolish enough to publish a sensitive and confidential financial report, especially when one considers the effect this could have on the market when one gets around to flotation. We are a long way from this. Legislation has first to be passed in this House and the matter has to go to the courts in Ireland and the United Kingdom. There is no question of secrecy and I totally reject that assertion.
In relation to what appears to be an innuendo — that may be incorrect but that is what I take it to be — I would like to inform the Deputy that the consultants were appointed on foot of a public tender in accordance with normal procedure. A total of 36 firms were invited to submit tenders. Sixteen replied of which six were examined in detail and three were short-listed. This is the one that was accepted which includes all the different firms I have referred to.
Deputy Rabbitte rose.
It must be a very brief question, Deputy, as the time for dealing with Priority Questions today is exhausted.
I ask the Minister to rethink the question of secrecy. For example, is he going to make the House aware of the number of options advanced by the consultants, whether he is aware that a leading economist yesterday suggested that the disposal of this number of shares in Irish Life will lead to no more than a cut of one penny in the pound in income tax as compared to the contribution Irish Life could make to the economy if it remains in State ownership, if he has taken on board the comprehensive views of the major union involved in Irish Life, MSF, and whether he is prepared to comment on the views of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions?
I did ask for brevity.
The Irish Congress of Trade Unions have stated publicly that it is their view that the decision announced by the Minister in respect of Irish Life is in breach of the Programme for National Recovery. In view of this, is the Minister prepared to rethink his decision?
I would like to inform the Deputy and the House that I met the secretary of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions prior to the Government making any decision on this matter, took his views into account and placed them before the Government when they came to discuss this matter. I also met the union concerned and had a very constructive and lengthy meeting with them on the future of Irish Life. I asked them to outline what their priorities were in relation to the restructuring of Irish Life and they replied that their first priority was jobs. I could reassure them — and I wish to reiterate the assurance given to me by Irish Life — that this will lead to a fortification of jobs, will open the way for an increase in business and an expansion of the company and, consequently to more jobs in the future. I do not think the questions asked by Deputy Rabbitte arise.
Jobs in Ireland?
Question No. 9.
(Limerick East): Are you not taking the last question?
I am sorry, but Standing Orders are against us.
(Limerick East): You are very harsh.
I am not harsh. The Chair merely applies the Standing Orders of this House, nothing more nothing less. Question No. 9.
(Limerick East): The Minister gave long replies so that we would not reach it.
Deputy A. Reynolds rose.
I am sorry, Minister, but I am proceeding to deal with other questions.
(Limerick East): The Central Bank stated that the Minister made a mess of the budget. He should answer Question No. 7.
Order, Question No. 9.
Even though I do not have the time I want to inform the Deputy that his worries centred around the figures at the end of January but they have improved quite considerably since then. There has been much hype and talk by him and everyone else about the end of January figures, but he should have examined them in detail.
(Limerick East): That is old information.
The position has improved quite considerably since then.
(Limerick East): Maurice Doyle criticised the budget on 8 February.
Things have become rather untidy. Let us have a reply to Question No. 9.
I insist that these interruptions must cease.
