It is proposed to take Nos. 6 and 7. It is also proposed, subject to the agreement of the House, that: business shall be interrupted at 12 midnight; the sitting shall be suspended from 6.30 p.m. to 7 p.m.; and the proceedings on the Committee Stage of No. 6 if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 5 p.m., by one question, which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the Minister for Defence. Private Members' Business shall be No. 20.
Order of Business.
Is the proposal for the late sitting to 12 midnight agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal that the sitting shall be suspended from 6.30 p.m. to 7 p.m. agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with No. 6 agreed?
The proposals for dealing with No. 6 are not agreed. It is outrageous to shorten discussion on this important Bill in the way proposed here by the Government. There are many matters still to be teased out and I ask the Government to withdraw this provision and to let Committee Stage debate on this Bill continue for as long as is necessary.
My party continue to oppose the guillotine on this Bill and we will be voting against this item on the Order of Business.
Deputy Ryan on the same subject.
On behalf of the Labour Party I oppose the guillotine in relation to this Bill as there is still a lot of detail which needs to be teased out. I oppose the proposal.
I regret that the Opposition parties are taking this attitude. The Government have been concerned to give the maximum possible amount of time to this important legislation and we have done that. My calculation is that when we finish Committee Stage this evening something in the region of 26 hours will have been devoted to the legislation.
It expands every week.
The Opposition are being quite unreasonable on this matter. The debate on the legislation generally has been constructive and I do not see any reason for pushing the timetable to a vote at this stage.
May I take if from what the Taoiseach is saying that if there is a substantial amount of business outstanding at 5 p.m., he will consider, in consultation with the Whip, extending the time to another day? So far we have dealt with seven amendments——
The Deputy put his point and the Taoiseach has replied. I am putting the question on the Order of Business: "That the proposals for dealing with No. 6 be agreed".
The Dáil divided: Tá, 66; Níl, 62.
Tá
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Barrett, Michael.
- Brady, Gerard.
- Brady, Vincent.
- Brennan, Mattie.
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Connolly, Ger.
- Coughlan, Mary Theresa.
- Cullimore, Séamus.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Davern, Noel.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- Dennehy, John.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Ellis, John.
- Fahey, Frank.
- Fahey, Jackie.
- Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
- Flynn, Pádraig.
- Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
- Garland, Roger.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Harney, Mary.
- Haughey, Charles J.
- Hillery, Brian.
- Hilliard, Colm.
- Hyland, Liam.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Kelly, Laurence.
- Kenneally, Brendan.
- Kirk, Séamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Martin, Micheál.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- McDaid, Jim.
- McEllistrim, Tom.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Morley, P.J.
- Nolan, M.J.
- Noonan, Michael J. (Limerick West).
- O'Connell, John.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- O'Malley, Desmond J.
- O'Toole, Martin Joe.
- Power, Seán.
- Quill, Máirín.
- Roche, Dick.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Tunney, Jim.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Wallace, Mary.
- Wilson, John P.
- Woods, Michael.
- Wyse, Pearse.
Níl
- Ahearn, Therese.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Barry, Peter.
- Bell, Michael.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
- Bruton, John.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Byrne, Eric.
- Carey, Donal.
- Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
- Cotter, Bill.
- Creed, Michael.
- Crowley, Frank.
- Currie, Austin.
- Deasy, Austin.
- Harte, Paddy.
- Higgins, Jim.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- Kenny, Enda.
- McCartan, Pat.
- McCormack, Pádraic.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- Mac Giolla, Tomás.
- McGrath, Paul.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- De Rossa, Proinsias.
- Doyle, Joe.
- Dukes, Alan.
- Durkan, Bernard.
- Enright, Thomas W.
- Farrelly, John V.
- Fennell, Nuala.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Finucane, Michael.
- FitzGerald, Garret.
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Foxe, Tom.
- Gilmore, Eamon.
- Gregory, Tony.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonan, Michael. (Limerick East).
- O'Brien, Fergus.
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Sullivan, Gerry.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Ryan, Seán.
- Sheehan, Patrick J.
- Sherlock, Joe.
- Spring, Dick.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Timmins, Godfrey.
- Yates, Ivan.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies V. Brady and Clohessy; Níl, Deputies J. Higgins and Howlin.
Question declared carried.
On the Order of Business, Sir, could I ask the Taoiseach if he would confirm to the House a remark attributed to him in the media this morning to the effect that the review of local authority structures, which the Government intend to undertake over the next few months, will not include the question of funding? Would the Taoiseach not agree that any review of local authority structures that does not deal with funding can only be the merest figleaf for their attempt to put off the local elections?
Order. The matter to which the Deputy refers is out of order.
I find that an extraordinary interjection, particularly when the Deputy and his party refused to come into an Oireachtas Committee to discuss the matter.
——and rightly so——
Order. The matter does not arise now.
——because no examination was involved.
The matter referred to is not one for the Order of Business. I want no further reference to it.
I will not make any reference to it, even though I feel very tempted to do so. Some weeks ago, in response to questions from myself and the Leader of the Fine Gael Party, Deputy Dukes, the Taoiseach said he would attempt to provide time for a debate in this House on important matters in regard to Anglo-Irish relations, consequent upon certain far-reaching decisions of the Supreme Court over the past few weeks. May I ask the Taoiseach if the Government have given that request further consideration; if time will be provided, and if it is not possible to provide time during the course of this week, which is the last week of this session, may we have an early debate on the very important matters affecting Anglo-Irish relations as soon as the Dáil resumes?
That is a matter more appropriate for discussion by the Whips than on the Order of Business.
With respect, a Cheann Comhairle, the matter has been raised in this House previously and the Taoiseach gave some indication; I would like to have that clarified now and I think he is willing to do so.
I would be very glad to meet the Deputy's wish in that regard.
I do not think we are excluded from referring to the fact that the Taoiseach has decided to defer the local elections. I am asking the Taoiseach——
The Deputy may not defy the ruling of the Chair in such a fashion.
Will you hear me out, Sir? I think I am entitled to be heard.
No, Deputy, you are not entitled to show flagrant disregard for a ruling of mine. I have ruled reference to the matter out of order, and so it is.
I am asking the Taoiseach when he intends to introduce the amendment necessary to carry out——
The Deputy will now resume his seat. As the Deputy's question is related to the local elections, it is out of order.
It requires amending legislation and these questions are legitimate under Standing Orders.
The Deputy will resume his seat or leave the House.
I wish to raise the matter on the Adjournment, Sir.
I will not entertain the request by reason of the unruly manner in which the Deputy dealt with the matter.
I wish to object. You, Sir, are obliged to consider every application from every Member of this House.
When it is done in accordance with proper order.
You, Sir, have no right to deny me my rights in this House.
With your permission Sir, I wish to raise on the Adjournment the proposed increase in university fees in UCC and UCD?
I will communicate with the Deputy.
With your permission, Sir, I wish to raise on the Adjournment the serious situation that exists because of the delays of the Minister for Justice in reappointing the prison visiting committees and the suppression of the Mountjoy Prison report for 1988 because of allegations of strip-searching of female prisoners?
I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning that matter.
(Limerick East): I would like to ask the Taoiseach when he intends introducing the promised legislation to implement the recommendations of the Gleeson report 31 on office holders' pensions, to which I understand both parties in Government are committed?
Is this promised legislation?
(Limerick East): Yes.
Not promised in the House.
It was promised outside the House.
It is an ongoing saga and there is general agreement that the legislation should be brought forward. Certainly, it will not be this session but we will try to accommodate it next session.
(Limerick East): Have the Progressive Democrats lost out again?
They just do not turn up.
No, it has nothing to do with the Progressive Democrats.
With the permission of the Chair. I should like to raise on the Adjournment the almost complete disappearance of sea trout from many of the leading fisheries in Connemara and the possible connection with fin fish farming.
No connection.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like the permission of the Chair to raise on the Adjournment the status and legal basis of the directive issued by the Archbishop of Dublin to the reverend chairmen of the three national schools in Celbridge, County Kldare, which overruled the decisions of the three boards of management of the three schools and which directed parents on which school their children could attend.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I understand that the Chair's office has now clarified that it is in order on the Order of Business to inquire about committees we were promised would be established in the House. I should like to ask the Taoiseach——
I am not aware of any such indication.
I understood that your officials had clarified the matter in regard to this and that my question is in order.
On the contrary, my office may have confirmed that it is not in order. Let us not argue about this. The Deputy is under a misapprehension.
The Deputy should sit down.
I will not sit down, I am addressing the Chair.
The only person who is entitled to order a Deputy to sit down is the Ceann Comhairle, not the Taoiseach.
I should like an opportunity to raise the matter with the Chair after the House has dealt with the Order of Business. There seems to be some confusion about this matter.
Is the Deputy seeking my permission to raise the matters on the Adjournment?
No, I am trying to establish whether I am entitled to ask about the position in regard to establishing the committees on crime and local government which were promised in the House.
I will communicate with the Deputy during the course of the day.
I should like the permission of the Chair to raise on the Adjournment reports in this morning's newspapers that Iarnród Éireann have abandoned plans to have a rail connection between Clondalkin and Tallaght.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like permission to raise on the Adjournment the question of the reopening of the public inquiry on the downstream crossing of the River Lee and the implications it has for infrastructural development in the Cork region.
I will be in touch with the Deputy.
I had a frightening experience yesterday travelling through the British checkpoint at Aughnacloy, County Tyrone, when a soldier trained a rifle on me and read the number plate of my car with his telescopic lens. I brought that matter to the attention of the officer in charge but I understand it is the practice, a frightening practice. With the permission of the Chair I should like to raise this whole matter on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
The Chair may declare that my question to the Taoiseach is not in order but I should like to put it to him. Am I in order in censuring, upbraiding or chiding the Taoiseach for his failure to respond to correspondence from me in September, in January and on 1 March in relation to the tercentenary of the Battle of the Boyne?
There are other ways of dealing with that matter.
I wonder why the Taoiseach has refused to respond to my communications. I tabled a parliamentary question to the Taoiseach on this matter and he referred it to the Minister for Foreign Affairs who also failed to reply to me.
There are other ways of dealing with this matter.
My correspondence related to the tercentenary of the Battle of the Boyne. The Taoiseach has often said that he is available for discussions with the Unionists——
It is quite disorderly to show disregard for the Chair in this fashion.
I have tried everything to get an answer to my questions in regard to that tercentenary. I have written on three occasions to the Taoiseach, I have tabled a parliamentary question to him, but I failed to get a reply from him or the Minister for Foreign Affairs. What am I to do?
The Deputy has made his point this morning. He must be satisfied with that.
The Deputy should get a white horse.
He should sign a protest note.
If the Deputy is dissatisfied with the reply of the Taoiseach or the Minister for Foreign Affairs, he has a remedy in the House. He may not engage in disorderly conduct this morning.
My only remedy is to table a parliamentary question but the Taoiseach has not replied to it.
If the Deputy does not desist I will have to ask him to leave the House.
If I raise the issue in the House I am asked to leave the House. Where is the democracy?
A Deputy
In Eastern Europe.
It is not here.
I should like to raise on the Adjournment the issue of the lack of a consultant paediatrician in Wexford General Hospital and the implication of that for the town and county of Wexford.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
With the permission of the Chair I should like to raise on the Adjournment a matter that has been the subject of Dáil Questions which I placed in Irish. The Chair has communicated to me that my question in English to the Taoiseach concerning the conflicting reports as to what is in mind for Telefís na Gaeltachta is argumentative. I should like to raise the general matter of the current state of proposals for providing Telefís na Gaeltachta on the Adjournment.
I shall communicate with the Deputy.
I should like the permission of the Chair to raise on the Adjournment the serious shortage of speech therapists in the special schools in Cashel.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like the permission of the Chair to raise on the Adjournment the concern of the communities of Kenmare, Sneem and Waterville in regard to fish farm development in the Kenmare River.
Employment provision, the Deputy means.
I will communicate with Deputy Moynihan.
With the permission of the Chair I should like to raise on the Adjournment the issue of the undue delay in giving approval to the plans for the improvements at the Patrician Academy in Mallow and the issue of secondary education in the town.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like to ask the Taoiseach to outline the present position concerning the establishment of the debt management agency. When can we expect that legislation will be introduced?
That is not in order.
They cannot find the debt.
Next session.
Will the Taoiseach, or the Minister for Social Welfare, say if we are likely to have the occupation and pensions Bill during the recess with a view to having it debated next session, as promised?
It will be available during the recess and we hope to debate it next session.
I should like to raise on the Adjournment the major and totally unjustified increase of 11 per cent in fees for all faculties at UCC.
I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning that matter.
With the permission of the Chair I should like to raise on the Adjournment the famous package announced by the Minister for Agriculture and Food at his press conference on Friday about new schemes of grants for greyhounds, goats and rabbits.
Is this a serious request?
The Minister thought it was serious.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of Question No. 59 on yesterday's Order Paper which refers to the strike at the Department of Labour. That strike has resulted in a delay in payments to workers at Barlo, Clonmel, Kerry Fashions and Sunbeam. The mattter is urgent.
I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning the matter.
The Chair will be aware that since I attempted to raise events in Lithuania yesterday the situation has deteriorated considerably. I should like to ask the Taoiseach if we will have an opportunity over the next couple of days to debate that matter in the House and show some solidarity with the Lithuanian people.
I recognise the importance of the matter but it is not in order to raise it now.
It is a matter for the Whips.
Are the Government prepared to make some time available for such a debate?
Not at the moment.
I will attempt to raise it by way of Private Notice Question today.
Fine, Deputy.
I seek to raise on the Adjournment the failure by the Minister for Education to put in place an adequate scheme of school caretakers in County Dublin.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I would like to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of Question No. 173 of 27 March regarding the provision of a community school in Rathkeale, County Limerick.
I will communicate with the Deputy.