Vol. 397 No. 7
3 Miss Flaherty asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will make a statement on the disclosures at a recent meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts that significant contributions records are lost between his Department and the Revenue Commissioners; and the action he proposes to take in this regard.
39 Mrs. Barnes asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will make a statement on the disclosures at a recent meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts that significant contributions records are lost between his Department and the Revenue Commissioners; and the action he proposes to take in this regard.
49 Mr. Taylor asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will make a statement regarding the criticisms of the Revenue Commissioners indicated in the 1988 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General (details supplied); the steps, if any, he will take to ensure that the Revenue Commissioners make all information available to his Department to ensure that social welfare claimants receive their full entitlements; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 3, 39 and 49 together.
Under the PRSI system introduced in 1979 when a single number for tax and social insurances purposes was adopted, the Revenue Commissioners collect social insurance contributions from employers in respect of employees. Contributions are collected from employers in respect of over 1.1 million employed persons. Employers submit detailed returns to the Revenue Commissioners after the end of each tax year. These details are recorded by the Revenue Commissioners, who conduct some initial processing. This leads to the transmission of details of the social insurance contributions to my Department for further processing and updating against each person's central social insurance record.
The bulk of records received from the Revenue Commissioners are processed immediately and without difficulty. However, each year there is a proportion of records which are deficient mainly in relation to identifying details such as the employee's RSI number. This can occur because it was either omitted by the employer or was not available to him at the time of making his end of year return. A number of measures are taken both by my Department and the Revenue Commissioners to resolve these deficiencices.
Where inquiries are initiated by the Revenue Commissioners with employers and the issue is resolved my Department are notified and the records are amended accordingly. In other cases where there is no RSI number and where there is sufficient other information, for example, an address, inquiries are made by my Department to the person to establish the RSI number so that the appropriate contributions can be properly credited.
I should say that the accuracy and completeness of the PRSI records is very much dependent on the quality of the information supplied by employers who, in turn, depend on the co-operation of employees. The importance of RSI numbers as an identifier is constantly stressed by my Department in dealings with members of the public. In addition, one of the functions of my Department's investigative staff is to ensure that employers keep adequate and up to date records for social insurance purposes.
Another development which will help in this area is the transfer of responsibility for allocating RSI numbers in the first instance from the Revenue Commissioners to my Department. Arrangements for this are being finalised.
Finally, I would like to say that the whole operation of the PRSI system is kept constantly under review by my Department and officials of the Revenue Commissioners to ensure that the best mechanisms and procedures are adopted. Over the years, refinements in the procedures have been made to improve the timeliness of decisions on entitlements. Millions of claims to social welfare benefits have been processed and paid promptly using the PRSI system and I am satisfied that the present system ensures that my Department receive all available information from the Revenue Commissioners in respect of PRSI contributions paid by employers and employees.
Does the Minister accept the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General to the effect that 1.3 million records are unassigned in his Department? Is he concerned about that? Will he agree that that has significant implications for people's entitlements?
Those files built up over the years. We are not talking about a build up in one year.
The Comptroller and Auditor Comptroller was referring to 140,000 files for 1987 when the Minister was in office.
There are many reasons a file is not sorted out, like those I advanced earlier. The principle reason is the allocation initially of an RSI number. We are anxious to resolve the problem in regard to RSI numbers and for that reason we offered to take over the allocation of those numbers. The preparation for that has been long and administratively difficult but it is nearing completion. It is my hope that following that change we will have less difficulty.
Will the Minister accept that there is need for public education in regard to RSI numbers? Will he agree that it is important that people should know that their records relate to them? What mechanism does he have to trace records? Will he ensure that the 1.3 million records are examined? Are all records looked at as a matter of course when controversial claims are made?
The two Departments are co-operating trying to identify the records. One difficulty we have come up against is the whole question of multiple RSI numbers. That occurs when a person who has an RSI number moves to another area and takes out another number. In certain sectors there is a great deal of such movement. The Revenue are there to collect tax and we give out benefits. They need to get the money in. If somebody is in an anomalous situation for one reason or another Revenue will want to give them a number and get them into their system. That can result in a number of RSI numbers going to one person without Revenue being aware of it. That problem would be dealt with if the matter were under the control of the Department of Social Welfare. It is for that reason we are proposing that change, which will remove some of the difficulties that have emerged.
The time has come to deal with other questions. No. 6, please, to the same Minister.
On a point of order, what happens to my questions? Do I just get a written reply?
Yes.
Obviously, I am unlucky this week.
The Chair does his best in these matters. The Chair is continually appealing to Deputies and admonishing them to try to deal with the questions within the prescribed time.
You should do the same with the Minister.
Clearly, the Chair is ignored on such matters.
The priority questions we had today were very complex.
