Deputy Seán Barrett gave me notice of his intention to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of the decision of the Minister for Education to reduce by half the intake to St. Catherine's College, Sion Hill, in advance of the completion of the review on higher education places.
Adjournment Debate. - Blackrock (Dublin) College.
With your permission, Sir, and with the permission of the House I would like to share my time with my colleague, Deputy Monica Barnes.
Is that satisfactory? Agreed.
I would like to thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for affording me the opportunity of raising this matter of concern about the rumours of the possible closure of St. Catherine's College in Sion Hill, Blackrock. This has been brought about by the recent instruction that the intake into the college this year will be reduced by half, from approximately 40 students to 20.
We are concerned about any possible phasing out of St. Catherine's College, Sion Hill, as a teacher training college, particularly in view of the fact that Blackrock has already lost a very valuable institution, Carysfort College. The Minister will recall that strenuous efforts were made by her in Opposition and by us to retain that worthwhile facility.
I understand that St. Catherine's College dates back to 1931 and that 1,500 students have graduated from it since its foundation. It is an obviously popular choice among students who wish to study for this degree course because over 100 students sought to attend this college in Blackrock, whereas only 20 students sought places in St. Angela's College, Sligo. We can see the same trend in 1988 and 1987. Students who wish to study for this degree course have a clear preference to do it in St. Catherine's College, Blackrock.
The students who complete their course obtain a B.ED Degree in Home Economics from Trinity College, Dublin. Obviously the advantage of Sion Hill, Blackrock, is that it is near Trinity College and students can avail of all of the facilities in Trinity College. Blackrock has all the facilities, restaurants, accommodation and so on, and the college is about a five minutes walk from the DART station. Easy access to a college is an essential element in education today.
It would be a terrible shame if we were to lose this worthwhile facility. I would like to see St. Catherine's College, Sion Hill, being retained as a teacher training college. I know the Minister will probably tell us, and we are all realistic, that the drop in numbers attending secondary school means that fewer teachers will be required. However, home economics has not been made a popular subject in schools because of the limited number of teaching posts in the home economics area. When we consider the growth in tourism which will increase our national economic growth, it would be a shame that a valuable facility like this, providing teaching skills, could be lost. I realise that home economics is not directly related to tourism but a number of lecturers in our third level colleges teaching tourism subjects, such as hotel and catering management, do not have teaching skills. There are excellent chefs and accountants lecturing in our third level colleges who have not had teacher training. If we find that there are not sufficient jobs in schools for qualified home economics teachers then we should look at alternative uses for these facilities. I accept that we might have to reduce the number of training places for teachers but we must ask how we can use the facilities to improve the industry that we have identified as being a natural growth area. I am asking the Minister to consider the possibility of extending the use of St. Catherine's College into the field of teacher training and the provision of teaching skills, and that those who are presently lecturing in third level colleges who have not had teacher training could avail of the services of St. Catherine's College.
Very often the teachers who replace home economics teachers when they are sick are not qualified home economics teachers. I think we have to take the subject more seriously. I ask the Minister to re-assure us this evening that there is no possibility of St. Catherine's College, Sion Hill, Blackrock, closing and that the 40 available places in the college will be utilised to the maximum. I suggest that we should look at the possibility of talking to the principal of the college with a view to finding alternative uses for those excellent facilities which may improve employment opportunities in the tourism industry in particular.
I thank Deputy Barrett for allowing me to share his time. I also thank the Minister for being present. I will not go over the ground Deputy Barrett has covered but I will raise points that I know are dear to the Minister's heart.
The Minister and I spent many hours together on the first Women's Rights Committee. Our very first report was on education. The third recommendation of the report, which we recommended very strongly, was that there should be a programme to teach basic skills for living, embracing social and political science, to be introduced in all post-primary schools. I know the new junior certificate, which I hope will be very successful, focuses very much on the living and social skills. However, the great difficulty is that this subject is not a core subject at either junior certificate or leaving certificate level. If it were seen as the central important subject, which it is, for boys and girls, it would be a core subject, and there would be a great need for the excellent teachers graduating from St. Catherine's College. If we are talking about expanding any programme in our second level schools it must be a programme to teach basic living skills. If we treated this subject with the seriousness it deserves, it would become a core subject and this would require a great number of teachers in our schools.
I know the Minister will agree that there could be a great input from qualified home economics teachers in the area of adult education, particularly for the disadvantaged. There would be a great demand for those teaching skills during day time adult education and I do not think I need tell the Minister something she knows so much about.
With all the strength we can muster, Deputy Barrett and I are telling the Minister that there is a real and continuing need for St. Catherine's College, Sion Hill, to be retained and there will be a future demand for the skills of these qualified teachers. There is a need to expand the provision of the subject in schools and in adult day time education. I ask the Minister to look seriously at the future planning for education to ensure that this subject fits very much within it. I cannot sit down without repeating what Deputy Barrett said, that we suffered a massive loss in Blackrock with the closure of Carysfort College. I ask the Minister not to add St. Catherine's College to the list or diminish it in any way when there is such a need for the skills of qualified home economics teachers.
I thank the Deputies for raising this issue. In any event, Carysfort was closed when former Deputy Hussey was Minister.
What about the Minister's commitment at that time to keep it open?
Let us be clear about this; Mrs. Hussey closed Carysfort in conjunction with the Labour Party.
The Minister should not drag us into this.
I met the principal and manager of St. Catherine's in my office by appointment and we had a full and frank discussion about the issue. Deputy Barrett was incorrect in saying that the college has been given details of numbers. They have been consulted about numbers but they have not been given a final allocation of numbers. The secretary of my Department has had telephone conversations with those involved and I understand that it is his intention to meet them next week.
There is no doubt that there will be a reduction in the intake in both colleges. My discussion with the people concerned was very interesting. Deputy Barrett accepts that we must recognise the fall in pupil numbers in our schools. At one time we thought that we would not have a fall in the birth rate but that has changed. I asked the principal and manager why they were concentrating on being a teacher training college for home economics teachers only. I asked if they had considered food technology, nutrition and catering for those who are interested in fresh foods and products that do not contain additives. It must be remembered that there is a greater awareness about the latter; they are assuming greater importance in our daily lives. I suggested that this matter should be the subject of a discussion between the management and the staff of the school.
The intake to teacher training colleges has been halved since we took office. Carysfort has closed and St. Patrick's, the Church of Ireland College and the Limerick College have had a reduction in their intake. We await the production of the Murphy report to get a true picture of the position. There are other disciplines that the college could turn its mind towards. We will have to go into this in great detail with the management and see if we can shape the course to include innovations in society. The Deputies will be aware that many supermarkets employ people who advise customers on food preparation and so on. There is a concentration on organic farming and that could be part of a course run by the school.
I undertook to meet the management of the college at a later stage. I do not have anything to hide in regard to this but it is my belief that we must talk through all issues. However, the intake of trainee teachers to St. Catherine's and St. Angela's at Lough Gill will be reduced. The colleges will be notified, following consultations, of their intake for the forthcoming academic year. When we reach agreement in regard to the intake we will embark on discussions about the details of the courses. I share the concern of the Deputies about this issue. Indeed, Deputy Hillery has had talks with me about the matter. It is natural that the Deputies should be concerned about a college in their constituency bearing in mind that they lost another fine facility in recent years. I want the best for St. Catherine's. I agree with Deputy Barrett that the link with Trinity College is very appropriate and that it gives them a firm professional basis for what they are doing.
I must tell the Deputies that the intake will be reduced and the college has been informally consulted about that. It is my intention to get my Department to enter into discussions with the authorities about the course they should offer. We want the staff utilised in the best way possible but we must accept that the food industry, and tourism, have changed direction. Perhaps a change of emphasis in the teaching programme will lead to a widening of the base and as a result an opening up of employment possibilities for the graduates of the college. The principal and the sister-in-charge have been told that I am prepared to meet them quite soon.
Will the intake to both colleges be reduced for the next academic year?
Yes.