It is proposed to take Nos. 11 and 12. It is also proposed, subject to the agreement of the House, that (1) business shall be interrupted at 10.30 p.m. tonight; (2) the sitting shall be suspended today from 6.30 p.m. to 7 p.m.; (3) the proceedings on Committee Stage of No. 11 shall be brought to a conclusion in accordance with the following timetable: sections 11-13 to conclude not later than 1 p.m.; sections 14-18 to conclude not later than 4.30 p.m.; sections 19-22 to conclude not later than 5.30 p.m.; sections 23-41 to conclude not later than 9 p.m.; section 42 (conclusion) to conclude not later than 10.30 p.m.; and where proceedings have not concluded by the stated time, they shall be brought to a conclusion by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the Minister for Labour. Private Members' Business shall be No. 23.
Order of Business.
I am opposing the proposal for a late sitting tonight because I feel it is the only way open to this House today to protest against the hamfisted approach adopted here last night by the Minister for Communications on an issue which goes wider and deeper than the issues contemplated in the Fine Gael motion. The Minister for Communications is intending to solve one problem, which I agree should be solved, but in doing so he is keeping up his sleeve a series of draconian measures which cannot but have the most serious effects on RTE and create a whole series of other problems. It is not the proper business of the Minister for Communications to create new problems for a company for which he is responsible in a way which will not bring any benefit to the other companies which he says he is interested in preserving.
I am permitting a brief comment on this challenge to the Order of Business.
I want to inform you we are opposing the Order of Business and I urge the Taoiseach that the matter which I referred to in my Standing Order 30 application should be taken in this House today. The House is sitting until 10.30 p.m. I believe that matter should be debated in the public interest.
In general terms, The Workers' Party will be opposing in every way possible the announcements and proposals of the Government as indicated by the Minister for Communications last night. Clearly the business of the day is urgent and important, dealing as it does with the Industrial Relations Bill. We would certainly support the motion proposed by the Labour Party in seeking to challenge what is happening. The Workers' Party have an amendment to the Fine Gael motion which will be taken tonight, which in essence reflects the position of the party as opposed to that of Government, who are attacking in an unwarranted way the position of the national broadcasting station.
For those reasons we are obviously not in a position to oppose the late sitting of this House, but in any other way available to us The Workers' Party will be standing full square against what is being proposed in this measure.
We can all understand fully the position of The Workers' Party.
We are having difficulty understanding the position of the Government and the statement by the Minister two years ago that no public moneys would be used to prop up private companies.
The Taoiseach, without interruption.
The Fine Gael Party had a motion on broadcasting before the House. The Minister announced his proposals in this House. We are often attacked for not announcing proposals in this House but when we do so we are also attacked. The Minister announced his proposals in good faith. Those proposals will have to be enshrined in legislation and every Member of this House will then be free to express fully his or her concern about these proposals and act accordingly during the debate. The Government are proceeding in a totally democratic manner in this regard. I would add that the Minister's proposals are brought forward in response to requests and pressure from every side of this House.
That is not true.
I would ask all those who requested and pressured the Government to do something about this unhappy situation in regard to public broadcasting to stand their ground.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Deputy Dukes, am I right in assuming that you are opposing the proposal that business be interrupted at 10.30 p.m.?
You are quite right, Sir. I put the Taoiseach on notice now that I will oppose every one of the hamfisted measures the Minister has up his sleeve which will seriously damage RTE and will not produce any of the benefits for any other of the interests he claims to want to protect.
The Taoiseach's version of what is happening in this House is totally and absolutely untrue and he should not be allowed to get away with it. Let us publish the contributions made by people to political parties. That is what this is all about.
Tá
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Barrett, Michael.
- Brady, Gerard.
- Brady, Vincent.
- Brennan, Mattie.
- Briscoe, Ben.
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Connolly, Ger.
- Coughlan, Mary Theresa.
- Cullimore, Séamus.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Davern, Noel.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- Dennehy, John.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Ellis, John.
- Fahey, Frank.
- Fahey, Jackie.
- Fitzgerald, Liam Joseph.
- Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
- Flood, Chris.
- Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Haughey, Charles J.
- Hillery, Brian.
- Hilliard, Colm.
- Hyland, Liam.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Kelly, Laurence.
- Kenneally, Brendan.
- Kirk, Séamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Lyons, Denis.
- Martin, Micheál.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- McDaid, Jim.
- McEllistrim, Tom.
- Morley, P.J.
- Nolan, M.J.
- Noonan, Michael J. (Limerick West).
- O'Connell, John.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- O'Toole, Martin Joe.
- Power, Seán.
- Quill, Máirín.
- Roche, Dick.
- Stafford, John.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Tunney, Jim.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Wallace, Mary.
- Walsh, Joe.
- Wilson, John P.
- Woods, Michael.
- Wyse, Pearse.
Níl
- Barrett, Seán.
- Bell, Michael.
- Belton, Louis J.
- Boylan, Andrew.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
- Bruton, John.
- Carey, Donal.
- Cotter, Bill.
- Creed, Michael.
- Crowley, Frank.
- Currie, Austin.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Lee, Pat.
- Lowry, Michael.
- McCormack, Pádraic.
- McGahon, Brendan.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- McGrath, Paul.
- Mitchell, Gay.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- D'Arcy, Michael.
- Deasy, Austin.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- Doyle, Joe.
- Dukes, Alan.
- Durkan, Bernard.
- Fennell, Nuala.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Finucane, Michael.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Gregory, Tony.
- Higgins, Jim.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonan, Michael. (Limerick East).
- O'Brien, Fergus.
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Sullivan, Gerry.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- Pattison, Séamus.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Reynolds, Gerry.
- Ryan, Seán.
- Sheehan, Patrick J.
- Spring, Dick.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Yates, Ivan.
The next question on the Order of Business is that the sitting shall be suspended today from 6.30 p.m. to 7 p.m. Is that agreed? Agreed. The last question on the Order of Business is that the proposals for dealing with No. 11 be agreed? Are they agreed? Agreed.
We are not agreed to this although we will not press it in view of the time that has already been lost and in view of the fact that the arithmetic would appear to be against us. A bit of realism is necessary in this House sometimes.
I want to put on record, Sir, my reservations about the speed with which we are going through this very important industrial relations legislation. We will probably not be back in this House again on this matter for 15 to 20 years and it is my considered view that unless full consideration is given to many of the sections we will create a lot of problems for ourselves. For that reason I want the record to show that we are opposed to what is, in effect, a guillotine motion.
Will I put the question then?
No.
Last week in our discussions on the Order of Business the Taoiseach indicated he would have the Whips consider provision of adequate time for a full debate on European political union. In addition, a matter was raised as to whether the Irish Government proposed to publish a paper on Ireland's position. I would like to ask the Taoiseach if he has come to a conclusion on either or both of these matters.
May I take it that the Order of Business is agreed despite the objection by Deputy Quinn and his colleagues? Agreed.
I understand Deputy Quinn's point and I appreciate his constructive attitude in this regard. I can only wish it would spread around the House.
I could indicate to the Taoiseach some ways in which he could show his appreciation.
I am always here to be helpful and constructive and placating.
The long playing record.
That must be the most contradictory statement ever made.
I intend to give the House a full opportunity to debate this very important matter. As I explained before, it is a question of when our debate could be most productive. Events are unfolding but I assure the Deputy we will have the debate in time to be apropos.
I am grateful to the Taoiseach for assuring us that we will have a debate before the summit. However, the question of an Irish position paper would obviously be the subject on which such a debate would be more focused if there were at least a paper available to the House outlining the options of political union. Will such a paper be published or is it the Government's intention to publish one?
No. It would be impossible.
On the same matter, there is something that alarms me slightly in relation to what has been said. The Taoiseach in the House gave what I took to be an assurance to me last Tuesday that this debate would take place. I am informed that at the Whips' meeting his Whip said that no assurance had been given. Can I take it that the Taoiseach's assurance to me also applies to his Whip and that there will be a debate?
I cannot comment on that but my assurance stands. I will have a cup of tea with the Chief Whip.
I would like to raise on the Adjournment the question of the failure of the Minister for Labour to answer questions of European journalists following the meeting of the Social Affairs Ministers yesterday in Brussels, and the embarrassment arising therefrom for this country.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I do not expect an answer from the Taoiseach on this matter now, but will he agree to arrange, before the Dáil goes into recess for the summer, a debate on the report of the review committee on the primary curriculum in view of the importance of having a democratic input in what is an extremely important subject?
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I would also like to ask the Minister for Labour to clarify his attitude to racism in the EC which he described as "this bloody thing". I would also ask him to let us know what proposals he has for bringing forward the programme on workers' rights from the Social Charter as the last meeting of Labour Ministers has now taken place.
Does this appertain to legislation?
It appertains to a very embarrassing position of the Government abroad.
It is not in order now, Deputy McCartan.
It relates to the last meeting of Labour Ministers during the Irish Presidency.
The Deputy will have to raise that at an appropriate time.
No progress has been made in the six months on the Social Charter on workers' rights. I hope the Minister will let us know what is happening.
In relation to the second interim report of the Committee of Public Accounts on the appropriation accounts, 1987 in relation to the sale of Tara Mines, the committee, in the report, asked that the House make available time to debate this interim report. I ask that the Whips consider this matter before the House goes into recess. Some time should be made available to debate this important report.
Perhaps the Deputy can be facilitated in that regard.
I would like to put on record that we consider the Taoiseach misled the House by an earlier remark he made. I wish to put the record straight by saying that at no stage did this party make representations to the Government or any Minister in regard to curbing or interfering with the rights of RTE.
The Deputy is going back on something we have disposed of.
I simply want to put the record straight.
The Deputy has a habit of doing this lately. He may not do that now.
He is entitled to do it.
No, he is not.
I think he has done it.
He has done it in spite of the Chair.
The second matter on the Order of Business was to inquire of the Taoiseach, now that the Whips meeting has resolved all issues with regard to the establishment of the committee on crime, when motion No. 9 in the name of the Government will be taken.
I have ruled that out of order on more than one occasion. The Deputy wishes to rehash that matter every day we meet.
Of course. Let me explain. Last week the Government sought——
I am well aware of what happened in the matter, Deputy.
——to establish this committee and then, because of what appears to have been a breakdown in communications, the matter was referred back to the Whips last Thursday
Please, Deputy McCartan, I ruled yesterday morning on the matter. We had quite a debate last week on the matter.
Issues were resolved at the Whips' meeting last Thursday and it is simply a question of asking when will the committee be established. This is a matter of the business of this House. We are to be working on the issues of this committee once established. When is it to be established?
The Chair, in order to try to terminate this repetition, deliberately allowed the Deputy to put his question. I am now calling on Deputy Quinn.
The matter is out of the hands of the Whips at the moment and is back with the Government. You said to refer it to the Whips.
Do the Government want to respond to the last question?
It is not the function of the Chair.
We will try again tomorrow.
There are two matters I want to raise. The first is one of clarification and the other of information. Am I to understand from the Taoiseach's exchange with Deputies Spring and Higgins that he is now indicating it is not the Government's intention to publish a paper on European political union and its implications prior to the EC summit?
Yes.
Am I to further understand that while the Taoiseach welcomes the idea of a debate, he has not yet decided when that debate may take place?
That is so, and I will explain why. The agenda of the Dublin summit has not yet been decided and events with regard to EMU and political union and so on are still unfolding. I would ask the Deputy to accept that when there is a reasonably clear position which the House can debate we will bring it before the House.
I should like to raise another matter with the Taoiseach. Earlier he indicated that legislation in relation to broadcasting had been promised in the document circulated at the commencement of this session but I should like to put it to him that if he reads carefully that document, which was circulated by the Government Chief Whip, he would see that a Broadcasting and Wireless Telegraphy (Miscellaneous) Bill was at an advanced stage of preparation and may be circulated in this session.
The Deputy is being repetitious. We had this matter earlier this morning.
With due respect there was no indication in the document circulated to the House that the Bill would be taken this session. Perhaps the Taoiseach misled the House. I should like to ask him when we will see the text of the Bill that will validate the outrageous decision of the Minister last night.
I have already indicated that the Bill will be circulated within a day or two and it will be taken very quickly thereafter.
In view of a recent decision of An Bord Pleanála, which has caused an outrage in Cork, to grant air pollution licences containing emission levels ten times greater than that allowed by Cork County Council, I should like to ask if it is intended to bring the environmental protection Bill before the House.
It is being drafted at the moment. It is a difficult Bill to draft but drafting is being expedited.
I should like to raise on the Adjournment the serious situation in relation to waiting lists for cardiac surgery at the Mater Hospital in Dublin.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
We will all be getting heart attacks.
I should like to raise on the Adjournment the plight of the former employees of Irish Shipping who, six years after the liquidation of the company, have not been paid their full severance entitlements.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like to raise on the Adjournment the failure of the Department of the Environment to deal with the problem that will arise when the Western Park Motorway will spew thousands of vehicles on to the roads of south County Dublin.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like to raise on the Adjournment the inordinate delays being experienced by members of the farming community in the payment of agricultural grants, the misinformation emanating from the Department regarding deadlines for payment and the failure of the Government to provide finance.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like to raise on the Adjournment drochstaid Ghairmscoil Cholmcille, Indreabhán, Contae na Gaillimhe, agus a fhiafraí den Aire Oideachais céard atá beartaithe aici a dhéanamh faoin scoil sin.
Cuirfidh mé freagra chugat ar ball, a Theachta.
I should like the permission of the Chair to raise on the Adjournment the urgent need for the Minister for the Marine to make a decision in relation to fisheries licences which should have been dealt with 12 months ago.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like permission to raise on the Adjournment the plans the Minister for Health has in the new Tallaght Hospital to preserve the traditional ethos of the Adelaide Hospital.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like to ask the Taoiseach if he has taken any steps to call in the Spanish Ambassador to protest, in the strongest possible terms, about the continued acts of piracy by Spanish fishing vessels in Irish fishing waters.
This matter was discussed in some detail in the House recently, as the Deputy will be aware.
I would like a reply from the Taoiseach. Does he intend doing anything about this?
The Deputy should desist. We dealt with this matter last night.
I will stand by the fishermen. Does the Taoiseach intend taking any steps to deal with this matter? Will he call in the Spanish Ambassador?
Nada.
I should like permission to raise on the Adjournment, and by doing so to get a response from the Minister for Industry and Commerce or his Minister of State, the bread price war. I am anxious to determine whether the object of the present exercise is to give better value to customers or to eliminate opposition in the trade.
I will be in touch with the Deputy about that matter.
In view of the tragedies, and serious accidents arising out of house fires, I should like permission to raise on the Adjournment the compulsory installation of smoke detectors in all new houses and in all local authority houses.
I will communicate with the Deputy in respect of that matter.