Vol. 399 No. 11
5 Mr. McCartan asked the Minister for Defence the date on which elections for representative bodies for the Defence Forces will be held; the number of candidates nominated to date; if any timetable has been set out for the future steps required for the establishment of the representative bodies; when the bodies will be operating; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
9 Mr. Nealon asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline the details of the system and method of voting to be used in the elections for the representative bodies for the Permanent Defence Force; the numbers to be elected and the various sections of the Defence Forces' structures they will represent; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
41 Mr. Moynihan asked the Minister for Defence the date for the elections for representative associations in the Defence Forces; and the mechanism for such elections.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 5, 9 and 41 together. The first election of representatives of personnel of the Permanent Defence Force is being conducted in accordance with rules laid down by the principal officer in charge of the franchise section of the Department of the Environment. The rules were drawn up following consideration of submissions from individuals and groups of individuals within the Permanent Defence Force and of the views expressed by representatives of the teams set up in connection with the Gleeson commission and by representatives of PDFORRA.
In the case of officers there are seven electoral divisions — four Commands, Air Corps, Naval Service and Army Headquarters — each of which will have five representatives except for the Curragh and Eastern Command which will have seven representatives each. The elected representatives for each electoral division will elect one of their number to a national committee.
In the case of NCOs and privates there are 48 electoral divisions in the various barracks throughout the country. The larger divisions will each have 12 representatives with five for each of the smaller divisions. The elected representatives from each electoral division will elect two of their members to a command committee. There will be six such committees — four Commands, Air Corps and Naval Service. Each of these committees will in turn elect two of their number to a national committee.
The systems of election to be used are the single transferable vote, in the case of officers, and the "at large" system in the case of NCOs and privates. In essence this latter system involves the placing of an `X' opposite each candidate of the voter's choice — the total number of `X's not to exceed the number of representatives to be elected in the particular division.
I understand that the level of representation and the arrangements for the conduct of the election generally reflect the wishes of representatives of the personnel as conveyed to the franchise officer.
Nominations closed on 7 June 1990. A total of 87 nominations were received for the 39 representatives of officers. In the case of NCOs and privates 591 nominations were received for 457 representatives. A ballot will be held in those electoral divisions where the number of candidates exceeds the number of representatives to be elected. Ballot papers are being issued by the returning officers, who are military personnel. Polling, which is in secret, will continue until noon on 26 June 1990.
The returning officers will be responsible for the counting of votes. Persons will be appointed by the franchise section of the Department of the Environment to observe the proceedings.
In view of the extensive consultations and preparations which have been carried out I have every confidence that the elections will proceed as planned.
When the representatives emerge at national level from the election I will meet them. The detailed further arrangements to be made at that stage will then be worked out in discussions between them and representatives of my Department.
I would like to thank the Minister for the information he has made available to us, most of which has been available from public statements he has made outside the House. Does the Minister accept that, apart from the role of the overall supervisor from the Department of the Environment, he has an active role to play ensuring that there is full support for what is happening at all levels within the Defence Forces and the Department and that stability will be maintained throughout the electoral process, given the high number of persons nominated and the number of positions to be filled, for example, at NCO level? Will he ensure that there will be no undue interference in terms of mobilisation, transfer or assignment of duties until after the election has taken place, and that those people who have been appointed will be allowed carry out their duties without undue interference?
I share the Deputy's interest in the matter. I am taking steps to ensure that there will be a maximum turnout of Defence Force voters and that no obstacle will be placed in the way of any voter or of the conduct of the elections generally. I am satisfied that we have set up a good organisational structure to achieve the objects expressed by the Oireachtas during the passage of the legislation.
Is the Minister happy with the idea of two different systems of election, the STV system and the at large system which he explained as putting an X opposite each candidate's name, but limited to the number of places available? Was the Minister asked for sanction of these methods of election before they were finally decided upon? Does he see any difficulty with the at large system where there may be strongly different points of view among the people represented, or a majority on one side may monopolise the entire seats?
This is a matter I left entirely to the representatives concerned. As the House will appreciate, there were two separate series of discussions on establishing the elections and the election procedure one of which took place between PDFORRA who expressed the wish, in regard to their election for NCOs and men, for the at large system, namely, placing the appropriate number of Xs, limited to the number of people nominated for the position. All the alternative options were placed before them by the franchise officer, Mr. Sexton, and his staff, and they opted for the at large system. During the discussions with representatives of the officers, they expressed preference for the single alternative transfer, the STV, system of voting.
PR, in other words.
Yes.
I would ask for brevity by reason of the fact that we are dealing with questions nominated for priority, to which a rather strict time limit applies.
I share some of the misgivings of Deputy Nealon with regard to the non-application of PR to the NCOs. However, the Minister has dealt with that. In regard to the scrutiny of the elections and the holding of the count, can the Minister indicate whether officials of the Department of the Environment under Mr. Sexton's direction will be taking possession of the votes once cast, or how will they be handled? I understood the Minister to say that Army personnel — I presume they would be high ranking personnel — would issue the ballot papers. Can he say what will be the fate of those ballot papers once they have been returned? In regard to the count, will there be outside scrutiny, in particular media presence, at the count and at the announcement of the results?
In regard to the count the details have yet to be arranged, but as of now the two groups are happy with the position. In the case of PDFORRA, the senior NCO of the military police, within a particular constituency as it were, will be responsible, and the officers have agreed to a similar type procedure in that a nominated officer will be responsible in each area. Each group is agreeable to a military person of senior status, a person in whom they have confidence and who is not involved in the election, acting as returning officer right through the whole procedure. If necessary, a local government official, nominated by Mr. Sexton who is the overall returning officer, with experience of elections and election counts will also be available. I am thinking in particular of the count in this respect.
Could I ask the Minister——
Perhaps a brief final question, Deputy McCartan. I want to try to dispose of the other priority questions also.
Will the Minister accept that as a matter of prudence, there should be central counting of all votes and there should be external scrutiny by the Department of the Environment, of the opening of ballot boxes and the counting of votes?
There is respect for status within the Army, Navy and Air Corps. The representatives concerned are very happy that a senior person of unquestioned integrity has been nominated — an NCO of the military police in the case of one group and an appropriate nominated senior officer in the case of the other — to supervise the procedure, with the fall-back advice of local authority officials who have election experience.
At the counting stage?
Yes.
6 Mr. Nealon asked the Minister for Defence if any arrangements are under consideration for the round the world yacht NCB Ireland to be put at the disposal of the Naval Service; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
The question of the Naval Service taking over the vessel referred to is under consideration.
Has a survey been carried out on the boat and its application for use by the Naval Service? If so, will the Minister give the findings of such a survey?
As I have said, this matter has arisen very recently and the communicated has been very general. No detailed examination has been undertaken yet but consideration will be given to the idea. This is not a matter that can be decided off the top of the head in a yes or no fashion. A lot of factors have to be taken into account — for instance, this is a high technology vessel; and the purpose to which it would be put by the Navy is another day's work. It would not be suitable for basic Naval training. A number of factors, including the uses to which it would be put, are being examined at present. I will communicate with the Deputy during the summer regarding the developments.
There were some reports that it was to be offered as a gift to the Naval Service? Can the Minister confirm that or otherwise? If it is to be offered as a gift would that immediately change his opinion about being indecisive as to whether they would accept it?
I want to assure the Deputy that it has not reached that stage. It is at a very general early stage and people have not even sat down yet to discuss the matter in principle. In general, the offer is available and there is goodwill on all sides. We will sit down and discuss whether the vessel can be used by the Naval Service. If it can be, well and good but that is a matter that must be discussed. Whether we are receiving it as a gift or otherwise has not been made clear.
Question No. 7 please.
Would the Minister like to meet them?
I was with them last night until a late hour. I congratulated the members of the crew and we discussed the matter in a social context. We have not got down to discussing the nitty gritty yet.
We should extend our congratulations to the crew.
I would like to be associated with what Deputy McCartan has said; the crew and the sponsors deserve tremendous congratulations for what was an heroic endeavour on their part.
