Vol. 399 No. 12
13 Mr. Connor asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs , in view of the acute vulnerability of the tens of thousands of illegal young Irish emigrants in the United States, if he has made any contacts or held discussions with members of the US Congress regarding the possibility of extending the Donnelly visa programme when allocation of visas under the current programme comes to an end this autumn.
The Government have given a very high priority to tackling the problems facing our immigrants in the United States, particularly those who are undocumented. We have concentrated much effort on encouraging our friends in the US Congress to promote measures aimed at the reform of current US immigration law.
As I have already informed the House on another occasion, I myself raised the question of our emigrants with the President of the United States and with Congressional leaders during my visit to Washington in late February. The Minister for Foreign Affairs has also pursued this issue on his visits to Washington and in his meetings, both there and in Dublin, with members of Congress. The Irish Embasssy in Washington is maintaining continuing contact with Irish-American Congressmen on the draft immigration legislation at present under consideration in the House of Representatives Judiciary Committee. Among the Bills and proposals before the House is a draft Donnelly Bill which would provide for an extension of the current Donnelly scheme. While it is too early to predict the outcome of the deliberations in Congress, I can assure the Deputy that the Government will continue to encourage the efforts of our friends in Congress to ensure that whatever legislation emerges is in the best interests of Irish emigrants.
In addition to our efforts in the area of legislative reform, the Government have sought to improve the welfare and advisory services to our emigrants in the US. Immigration Working Committees have been established under the aegis of our Consulates General to co-ordinate the activities of the main organisations providing welfare assistance in the immigration area. The Government have recognised the valuable contribution being made by these groups by allocating £200,000 in this year's budget to assist their activities. Applications for these funds are currently being received by our Consulates.
I am glad to have the Taoiseach's assurance that he is making representations to US Congressmen. Nevertheless, I would have to say to him that that is not the feedback I get, since I and my party also have our contacts with our friends "on the Hill", as they say. What the Taoiseach said was of a very general nature. Could he be a little more specific and let us know what kind of feedback he has had from his contacts or discussions with the friends of Ireland, those Members of Congress and the US Senate who call themselves the friends of Ireland whose work we welcome and very much appreciate? Would the Taoiseach say — in relation to the responses he is getting — whether they are negative or positive. We are coming to a crucial point in the sense that the present immigration programme is running out, the Donnelly measure will be on the floor of the House of Congress and, at this stage, there should be a clear indication as to how it should go?
I do not think the Deputy is accurate in what he is saying. The way I would reply is: who do we not talk to? For instance, there are Senators Kennedy and Simpson, the Kennedy-Simpson legislation. We keep in close touch with them and their legislation.
As the Taoiseach will know, that is a non-runner.
No, I do not accept that that is a non-runner at all. As the Deputy will know, Congressman Donnelly is in constant touch at all stages and Speaker Foley is very sympathetic and understanding, so I cannot understand to whom the Deputy is referring when he suggests that we might be getting a negative response.
The Taoiseach has spent a long time letting us know about the amount of contact he has made but I would like the Taoiseach to comment on his evaluation of the response and whether it has been positive or negative?
It has been positive.
I am delighted to hear that.
Would the Taoiseach clarify something he said in his reply? The Taoiseach referred to the Kennedy-Simpson Bill which is being mirrored in the House of Representatives and the extension of the Donnelly scheme. Would the Taoiseach say whether they are two separate things or are they running concurrently?
Theoretically, they are separate.
Are they both running at the same time?
Yes.
Congressman Donnelly is proposing an extension to his scheme while at the same time a Bill which he has proposed is in a sub-committee in the House of Representatives, is that correct?
The Kennedy-Simpson Bill has gone through the Senate.
What about the House of Representatives?
They are separate.
Is he running both at the same time?
Yes, that is the American system. Bills of all kinds are going through. Different Members in both Houses are taking their own approach but we try to correlate their efforts.
The two Houses are separate but I understand from the Taoiseach that it appears there are two separate pieces of legislation going through the House of Representatives, first to extend the Donnelly visas 1986 legislation and, second, legislation mirrowing the Kennedy-Simpson Bill in the Senate. If that is so, it would appear to me — I do not want to be contentious about this and the Taoiseach may correct me — that Congressman Donnelly is signalling a weakness in his own legislation, which mirrors the Kennedy-Simpson Bill, if at the same time he is looking for an extension of the Donnelly visa.
Deputy Ray Burke is advising him.
The Donnelly Bill is a draft Bill in Congress at present.
Is it the same as the Kennedy-Simpson Bill in the Senate?
No. Congressman Donnelly has his own draft Bill in Congress to extend the Donnelly system of visas. The Kennedy-Simpson Bill, as the Deputy knows, is a much more fundamental proposal and that has been through the Senate and is now in a Judiciary committee. They are not mutually exclusive. As the Deputy knows in the American system——
The position has changed in the past three months.
My question relates to the Donnelly programme and the extension of the visa programme which is a realistic proposal. I would like to remind the Taoiseach, for his information, that the Kennedy-Simpson Bill has gone nowhere in the House of Representatives——
Deputy Connor, I want to assist you to elicit information, but we must proceed by way of supplementary question.
A Cheann Comhairle, I have the greatest respect for your judgment but nevertheless I think accuracy should be on the record of this House and I only rise to put the record straight.
Please, Deputy Connor, I am facilitating you to secure accuracy by way of proper procedure and not by way of statement or speech-making.
I have given the exact record, the Donnelly Bill——
The Taoiseach has been badly misinformed, I am sorry to say.
I do not know how the Deputy can make that statement. The Deputy first asked about our contacts on the Hill, and I have given those. I have mentioned all the people we have spoken to, I have indicated that our reception has been very positive and we probably have the best relationship and contacts of any country outside the United States. I have given the exact position in regard to the Donnelly Bill, which is a draft Bill in Congress at present and its purpose is to extend the Donnelly visa scheme. There are no inaccuracies about that.
If that is so, then Deputy Connor is right and the Taoiseach is wrong.
This is going on and on and is becoming an argument.
I am not prepared to accept that I am making any misstatements to this House and I am giving the exact, accurate position.
Would the Taoiseach mind if I explained the position?
We may not debate this matter now. I am ruling as such, Deputy Barry.
I am not saying the Taoiseach is deliberately misleading the House——
That may not be said of any Member of this House.
——but the way he is presenting the information is not correct.
Deputy Connor's question refers to the Donnelly Bill and I have given the exact position on the Donnelly Bill.
The Taoiseach then spoke on the Kennedy-Simpson Bill with great misinformation, Sir.
I did not. I have given the Deputy the exact information on the Kennedy-Simpson Bill, which is a different piece of legislation. If the Deputy knows the situation, as Deputy Barry does, he will know that in the House of Representatives and the Senate all types of different Bills are constantly being put forward and processed simultaneously and that is what is happening in this case.
But there are laws——
Let us end this argument and have a reply to Question No. 14.
The Deputy is discouraging me from being helpful.
Let us not resurrect it all again.
