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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 28 Jun 1990

Vol. 400 No. 6

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Low Paid Workers.

Pat Rabbitte

Ceist:

1 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Labour if his attention has been drawn to figures disclosed in the booklet, Low Pay-the Irish Experience, published jointly by the Combat Poverty Agency and the ICTU, which showed that more than 250,000 workers are in low paid jobs and that almost half of the female workforce is in low paid work; if in light of these figures, he intends to take any initiative to improve the position of low paid workers; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

The booklet to which the Deputy refers contains papers presented at a conference on low pay organised by the Combat Poverty Agency and the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, held on 13 December 1989. These papers show that there are many aspects to the problem of low pay and that it tends to be associated with particular categories of workers such as women, school leavers, part-time workers and older workers. Low paid workers are to be found predominantly in unskilled and part-time work for which low educational qualifications are required, where there is quick labour turnover and where there is little or no prospect of promotion.

As I pointed out in the paper which I delivered at the conference, and which is included in the booklet, it is my view that action to tackle low pay must cover a broad range of policy areas including employment creation, education, training, welfare benefits and taxation. It also involves policies in relation to specific categories of workers such as women, school leavers and part-time workers. The Government have been active in taking measures to address all of these areas and I am satisfied that this approach offers the best prospect of making real progress towards improving the position of the low paid.

Would the Minister not agree that to refer to the problem highlighted in this booklet as one of low pay is to engage in the euphemism of the year, at a time when a quarter of the workforce are living on wages of less than £130 a week, when it has reached the proportions of a national scandal? Would the Minister be more specific about his response, for example, to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions who intend tackling the problem of low pay next year in the hope that legislation setting down legal minimum standards will be introduced?

The Deputy has raised a number of issues. First, the problem was described by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions as one of low pay. I could get involved in an argument over the exact figures but I think Mr. John Blackwell and Mr. Brian Nolan have done a very good job while the conference, which the Combat Poverty Agency and the ICTU helped to organise, highlighted the need to tackle the problem of low pay. Early school leavers can be assisted by organising education programmes and providing them with training and work experience in disadvantaged areas. FÁS, CERT and community workshop training programmes could also be organised. We also need to consider how we may broaden the opportunities for women to improve their position in the labour market. In relation to older unemployed people, numerous programmes have been organised to assist them.

As I have pointed out at several trade union annual conferences this year we have to consider the categories of workers who are on low pay, such as unskilled manual workers, check-out workers, shelf-fillers and clerical staff in low grades. Other major factors are a person's age, length of service and work experience. As the Deputy is aware, various programmes have been organised within the Civil Service, the public service and the private sector to try to assist those people.

The Deputy's final question is whether a statutory minimum wage provides the solution to the problem but, as the Deputy is aware, I am of the view that restructured and expanded joint labour committees offer a better solution. The workshop at this conference came to the conclusion that if we wish to eliminate low pay we need to increase productivity and market share. They also came to the conclusion, as I had done, that if we were to try to introduce a statutory minimum wage we would put people in employment under great stress and difficulty, with the result that rather than creating well paid jobs we would eliminate employment instead.

Finally, let me repeat something I have said several times, that the questions of taxation, social welfare and social services are equally important. In granting exemptions in the taxation area and taking the other initiatives announced in the budget, including the one on family income supplement, the Government have done a great deal in trying to assist those on low pay. As the Minister for Finance indicated in his Budget Statement that only marked the beginning.

Let us come to deal with Question No. 2.

Does the Minister——

I am sorry, Deputy Rabbitte, but if I am to dispose of the five questions I need to move much more quickly.

I have very often found myself with Question No. 5. I have sat through several supplementary questions——

That may be so, Deputy.

This is a very important question and I think I am entitled to ask a supplementary.

We have devoted nearly eight minutes to your——

My party are only allowed nominate a question for priority every second day.

The Deputy is wasting time. It will do him no good.

Today I have a priority question and I am entitled to put a supplementary question. This is an important issue and I am entitled to put a supplementary question.

Yes, indeed, but if the Deputy is dissatisfied with the Minister's reply there are other ways of dealing with the matter. I am now calling Question No. 2.

Would the Minister not agree that minimum pay legislation which has been implemented in other countries and which has not damaged unemployment——

The Chair will be heard. Question No. 2.

There are 228,000 people living on wages of less than £130 a week——

For the record, we have taken up some nine minutes of the 15 on the Deputy's question.

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