Vol. 401 No. 6
I move:
That a sum not exceeding £81,733,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December 1990 for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Education, for certain services administered by that office, and for payment of certain grants and grants-in-aid.
The Minister has ten minutes.
Before we start, a Cheann Comhairle, can you tell me what time we finish the Education Estimates?
4.45 p.m.
And we are already down five minutes.
Yes. It will not affect the Minister's time. The Minister has ten minutes to open and five minutes to reply at the end.
Quite obviously, ten minutes is not enough time to say what one has to say. I am circularising the script. It is disgraceful that there is only ten minutes. If there had not been the delay on all the Bills this would not have happened.
It happened last year as well. We did not have time to discuss the Estimates.
Ten minutes is much too short a time.
Let us commence the business.
I would ask somebody to go for the scripts. I do not know where they are. I asked for them to be brought in. Are they coming?
They will be here shortly, Minister.
Deputies need not say that I did not say what is in the script, because there will not be time to do that.
It is unfair to expect us to reply to something that the Minister has not read.
I would not have time to read it in ten minutes. I am very sorry, but I am no Joe Foyle.
The overall education provision represents an increase of 5.5 per cent and it is now 19 per cent of the total Exchequer provision as compared to 16 per cent in 1986. Capital expenditure is £65.675 million. There are some future Vote transfers between Environment and ourselves, which are explained. They are purely procedural. There is also a revised total sum from the national lottery, which is an increase of over £7 million on the 1989 outturn. My colleague, Deputy Frank Fahey, will speak about that.
Vote No. 26 is for the salaries and expenses of departmental staff and for various educational and cultural activities. Again, there is a difference here from the abridged Estimates because the Minister for Finance announced that national lottery funding would be provided for in separate Votes of Departments. There is a breakdown of that £28.513 million under the headings of grants to youth and sports organisations, grants for provision of recreational facilities, grants for major sports facilities, cultural activities and the Irish language. The recreational facilities area is no longer in the Department of Education but are the responsibility of the Minister for the Environment, Deputy Pádraic Flynn. Deputy Frank Fahey, the Minister for Sport, will speak in more detail about sports facilities.
Computerisation was brought in in 1989, with stage two in 1990; and there will be a further stage of computerisation in 1991. When this is completed it will result in computerised office information systems being developed and implemented on a wide scale throughout the Department.
In regard to international activities, we are involved in the committees for COMMETT, PETRA and LINGUA. The LINGUA programme will be starting next January and was the subject of questions here today which I will put to the committee.
We have made advances in the Department under the heading of gender equity. We have provided £96,000 to provide continued support for a number of different projects.
The NCCA was set up in 1987 as an advisory body to the Minister for Education. This year it got an increase of 23 per cent because of the important work they are doing in regard to the Junior Certificate on sample examination papers, the developmental stage of Phase II, the development of overall policy in regard to the senior cycle and the first phase of syllabus revision.
There are various increases for first level education which we will be able to implement next September and right through the next Programme for National Recovery. The disadvantaged fund has been increased from £0.5 million to £1.5 million in 1990. The distribution of that fund will be announced soon in the schools.
Capitation grants for primary school pupils have been increased by 5.7 per cent this year on top of an increase of 10.4 per cent last year. The grants for free books at primary level were increased this year by 20 per cent. It was 17 per cent last year. Again, it is not enough; but it is making great strides in the face of a very difficult economic situation that we have been able to give increases of this nature. The pilot psychological services have been started and will be monitored in the national schools.
The 1990 allocation for the national school programme will be applied in the first instance to the completion of some 45 building projects which are in the course of construction. The balance will be applied to school buildings in rural areas which need replacement.
There are two educational reviews, one by Moya Quinlan and another by Tom Murphy. There is also the OECD review. Already, in anticipation of having the three on board and disseminating them, I have set up a strategic policy planning unit in the Department. We will be outlining our strategies and ordering our priorities when the three reviews come to hand and this will be a major signpost for the years ahead in primary education.
In regard to the allocation for second level education, nearly 84 per cent of this will be spent on pay and pensions this year. This is quite right because the system is built on the quality of our teachers.
Capitation grants for secondary pupils have been increased by £10 per pupil. I freely admit it is not enough and we hope to again look at that very carefully next year to see what we can do. The allocation for free books at second level has increased by 23 per cent on top of an increase of 20 per cent last year. Every year as we approach autumn there is the hype about school books. Every year, however, since I came into office there has been an increase of 20 per cent on average for both primary and post-primary school books and this in the face of appalling economic circumstances. I do not, however, want to see it increased to increase profits for booksellers and book companies. That is not its purpose. It should be administered carefully and correctly.
The allocation for adult literacy and community education has been doubled. That is not to count the £2.6 million which is spent on it in other areas. I refer to the budgetary allocation, which is increased from £0.5 million to £1 million. The VECs have received extensive guidelines as to how they are to use it. We will be monitoring that and meeting with them again in September.
I will be making announcements in regard to the junior certificate programme fairly soon. Technology was introduced in 62 schools last year in the junior cycle and will be introduced in another 60 schools this year. I hope to phase the subject into all second level schools on a gradual basis until it is on offer to all schools.
The junior certificate programme marks the first phase of curricular reform at second level. Already the NCCA are tackling the senior cycle curriculum. I would like to thank that body and all who serve on it, teachers, non-teachers and so on. They are doing amazing work for Irish education and I am very appreciative of it. The developments of senior cycle include VPT1 and VPT2. There is also the leaving certificate vocational training programme which was introduced last year. So many schools have expressed enthusiasm this year and want to take it up.
Youthreach, too, was the subject of a question here today. There is a need to tackle the root of problems and I will certainly take note of what was said on that matter.
With regard to the post primary school building programme, we are concentrating moneys in three areas: where the relevant school authorities have agreed to the rationalisation; schools in need of accommodation which are the sole providers of educational facilities in their areas; and centres where schools need replacement-extensions to meet long-term projections.
There has been an 11 per cent increase in the Vote for third level and further education over last year's outturn. Legislation in relation to the VEC colleges will be introduced in the autumn. All of the regional colleges and VEC colleges are success stories with so many students seeking to get into them. Over 85 to 90 per cent of students now in those colleges have their fees completely paid and are in receipt of the new European Social Fund grant.
There is £116 million in grants to the Higher Education Authority. We have just appointed the new Authority, which met for the first time on Tuesday last. They have a very good board who will seek to give the best value to the young people who enter that sector. For the first time EC approval was given for some courses in the HEA sector this year. As regards the third level programme, funds are being provided from the Structural Fund and from Government funding.
Under that programme the regional technical college in Tallaght is well under way. New buildings are being erected and improvements made to older ones. In particular we are introducing special programmes which will also allow extra students enter the HEA sector.
Of all the matters we have been able to put in place last year, the one that gives me the greatest encouragement relates to the admission requirements for third level education. A phased programme will be initiated this year with the computerisation of the leaving certificate results. Under this programme the process for young people wishing to enter VEC colleges and higher education colleges will be simplified. A uniform policy regarding a common points entry system for degree level programmes is currently under consideration by university authorities and VEC colleges. The National University of Ireland has decided to abolish the matriculation examination from 1993 onwards. From 1992 onwards, pupils can repeat the leaving certificate as many times as they like, but only one result will be taken into account for entry to third level education. All of those measures are widely welcomed. I got great co-operation from VECs, universities and all the officials concerned who realise the need for these changes. As regards the measures which were implemented under the Irish Presidency, I was able to expand on that matter in answer to a question here earlier.
I will open my remarks by a quotation which is as follows: "Many decisions will have to be taken before long that will have lasting implications for the quality of education in Ireland well into the next century". That quote is from the present Minister for Education in the Dáil this time last year.
That is what we are doing.
The Minister will be judged on her ability to make those decisions. Over the past year she has not lived up to her own statement of purpose. For example, no decision has been made on the Colleges Bill, on the Dublin Institute of Technology Bill or on the long-established review of the higher education grants system. There are still grave injustices, whereby some people are accepted and others are not, on the basis of anomalous interpretations of means. Despite expressed goodwill on the Minister's part, no decision has been made on the introduction of a comprehensive Education Bill to put what is a 19th century educational system into the 21st century setting. Indeed, no decisions have been made on any initiatives in the area of the curriculum, with the exception of the introduction of a junior certificate and as is well known, that is an initiative the Minister inherited from her predecessor. Neither has a decision been made on the Primary Curriculum Review Body.
Indeed, the Minister could well be described as the Minister for reviews. She referred this year, as she did last year and perhaps the previous year, to the three reviews that are taking place; and now she has announced the setting up of a special unit in her Department to review the reviews. Any Minister's purpose is not to preside over reviews but to make decisions and to accept the unpopularity, or popularity as the case may be, that comes from making decisions. I expect the Minister will not be Minister for Education when the decisions have to be made on the various reviews to which she has referred. She hopes somebody else will have to do the work and that she will have had the opportunity of spending the time——
The Deputy will not be Minister anyway.
That is disappointing, and it represents a disappointment for the Minister in terms of her statement of purpose last year.
I will move to the next part of my speech with another quotation: "We cannot contend that we have a good educational system when it continues to allow out of the primary school system alienated, emotionally disturbed ... or pupils who cannot read or write". That quotation of 13 June 1986 comes from the then Fianna Fáil spokesperson on Education, Deputy Mary O'Rourke. On that occasion she said she favoured "a more formalised structure of primary schooling at fifth and sixth year". She said she favoured to some degree a return to the three Rs. I would be very interested to know the exact progress that has been made in that regard in the three years since the Minister came to office. I am not talking about asking people to review the matter, talk about it or produce papers on it. I want to know what has been done in the last three years to reduce the number of pupils leaving our primary schools who are unable to read or write, for whatever reason.
The Minister said in the same speech: "I have been bitterly disappointed at the progress of the transition year". What further progress has been made in the last three years in regard to the transition year? None. The Minister further said she strongly favoured school-based assessments in place of written examinations. I know the Minister will tell me a report has been produced on that matter — another one of these famous reports — but has any decision been made or have any changes take place in the schools on foot of the Minister's clearly expressed preference in 1986? Absolutely nothing has been done to implement that measure.
In the same speech the Minister condemned most strongly the cutbacks in capital at post-primary education level for school building. She was condemning most vigorously the then Minister for Education, Deputy Cooney, for the fact that he succeeded in spending only £43 million on post-primary school building in 1985. The Minister is spending only £18 million in 1990 as against the paltry sum, as she saw it at the time, of £43 million in 1986. The Minister has said that the figure in the Estimates for 1986 for publications in Irish shows a definite lack of commitment but the sum provided in this year's Estimates for publications in Irish is virtually the same.
We see here a legacy of disappointment. I will quote from another statement from the Minister in this House on 24 April 1985. She said: "I want to make a very special case here this evening for the replacement of caretakers at primary schools"— in other words, that caretakers should be appointed. She spoke about vandalism in schools and so on. The problem remains substantially the same in so far as caretakers are concerned. Admittedly, the decision not to replace them had been taken earlier but the Minister who was then in Opposition led everybody to believe she was going to reverse that decision.
The Deputy should look at one of the questions I answered today, which refers to that matter.
The position in terms of caretaking in schools is indeed worse than it was at that time. The Minister said at that time it was almost impossible to contact the principal of a secondary school because of a lack of secretaries. Since the Minister came to office, how much progress has been made in appointing secretaries? By her own standards — I have been quoting carefully from what the Minister has said — in terms of making decisions and commitment to various improvements in education, I would give her a mark of two out of ten.
I give the Deputy no grade.
I am glad to say I do not have to rely on the Minister for my grades.
Deputy Bruton does not need interruption or assistance.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): Not interruption anyway.
I would like to take this opportunity to refer to a number of other matters. I am particularly disappointed that the Minister has made no decision on the review on higher education grants. It is quite obvious that people from modest income backgrounds are unable to go to college at present. If you happen to be from the PAYE sector, you have a very poor chance of going to college. If you come from the farming sector, you will get a college grant in some countries but not in others, depending on the policy the county manager adopts to your accounts. The county manager may make a decision that one person is a crook, another is not and on the basis of that decision he decides whether the person is entitled to a grant. We do not have clearly understood objective criteria for assessing means to determine eligibility for higher education grants. As a result there is great unfairness and a grave sense of injustice.
The Minister has had a review on higher education grants on her desk for the past year and, today, a year later, she has announced that she is not going to make a decision on this matter but that she will circulate the report to all the Government Departments so that they can look at it and see whether they can change the criteria and thus somehow get her out of her difficulties. To my mind, the job of the Minister for Education, in the first place, is education and if there is an injustice in education it is the Minister's job to deal with it. It is not her job to refer the problem to the Department of Social Welfare, the Department of Health, the Department of Finance and ask them to sort out their problems and then advise her on solving her's. I think that is not the job of a Minister. The Minister has had a report and she should have made her decision on the basis of that report, but she has failed to make a decision. Those failing to get places on higher education courses will regard that as a serious deficiency on her part.
The Minister, when Minister in a previous administration, accepted the Second Stage of a Bill introduced by a former Deputy, Mr. George Birmingham, to remove the appointment of vocational teachers from the political arena. The Minister indicated she was in favour of that approach and that she would introduce her own legislation. That was two years ago, but she has not introduced her own legislation.
The Deputy was supposed to introduce the legislation.
The Minister said two years ago that she was going to introduce this legislation.
Where is the Deputy's Second Stage speech?
The Minister has not produced any legislation in this area.
Let the Deputy show me his Bill.
I am awaiting the opportunity of persuading enough Progressive Democrats Deputies to say they will vote for my legislation, because when I get sufficient assurances that I have a majority for the measure, I will introduce it.
Cowardy pants.
The Minister has a majority in the Dáil and she can introduce this measure if she wants to. She has promised that she will do so.
Cowardy pants.
Tá an tam istigh. It is now 12 minutes past the hour.
May I have three minutes?
These three minutes will not be available later on.
In the event that the Minister does not publish legislation to remove the appointment of vocational teachers from the political arena during the summer recess, the Fine Gael Party will put the legislation before this House in October.
Hear, hear.
The Deputies opposite who supported the Minister when she said she was in favour of this legislation two years ago, and who are now trying to run away from it, will have an opportunity to vote on the issue in the House.
We will then see how far the Minister is prepared to go.
The Deputy is all bluster.
I think the Minister——
I would remind Deputy Bruton that he has now exceeded his time by two minutes.
Three minutes.
No, two minutes.
I would advise the Minister that with less twittering and less personal abuse, she might make more progress.
If the Deputy has less bluster he might make his mark. It is all blow and there is nothing behind it. The Deputy is just what Terry Keane said he was in the Sunday Independent last week.
Do not mind Terry Keane.
The Minister is not that naive.
An gá dom a chur in iúl don Teach gur cúrsaí oideachais atá i gceist anseo. Bheidh ionadh ar na daoine atá amuigh, measaim.
Ar an gcéad dul síos, ba mhaith liom a rá go mbeidh an Lucht Oibre ag vótáil i gcoinne an Mheastacháin seo. An fáth is mó go bhfuilimid ag vótáil ina choinne ná go gceapaimid nach bhfuil an Meastachán seo agus na seirbhísí atá á gcur ar fáil ag an Roinn Oideachais ag freastal ar an dream a bhfuil bá againn leo, is iad sin na daoine bochta, na daoine atá ar phá íseal, agus mar sin de.
The total Estimate for the Department of Education is £1,367 million, which is a very considerable amount of money. Rather than deal with the detail of the Estimate, I would like to take an overall view of it in the ten minutes available to me.
We must ask what this money achieves in terms of educational objectives? A fundamental objective of Labour Party policy would be equality of access to education that is relevant and proper to the needs of people at all stages in their lives, because we see education as an ongoing process throughout life. Indeed, the provision for adult education has been in decline over a number of years, particularly in rural areas because the travelling expenses for teachers would not encourage them to go to rural areas where classes had been held previously. This is a matter of grave concern to us because people in rural Ireland are losing out on adult education and, indeed, on second chance education. Second chance education is very important.
Some weeks ago I raised in the House the fact that the Open University will become available in Ireland from next February and the distance education centre will be accepting applications for four degree courses up to 14 September 1990. It is anticipated that the first modules will commence in February of next year. In the United Kingdom, grants are available for unemployed people and others to take part in Open University courses. When I raised this matter with her, the Minister said that she could not provide anything this year but she would look at the possibility of doing so next year. Second chance education can help people to escape from the poverty trap and can help them towards achieving their full potential as individuals, which we in the Labour Party are very concerned about developing.
If we start at first level education and look at the statistics of the numbers retiring from national school teaching we see that since 1979 the number of teachers who retire at the compulsory age, 65, has decreased from 65 per cent of all those retiring to 28 per cent last year. At the same time the number of teachers who have retired on the grounds of disability has increased from 5.8 per cent in 1979 to 20.3 per cent of all teachers retiring last year. I believe those statistics give a clear indication of what is happening in our schools.
Deputy Bruton referred earlier to review bodies. The report of the Review Body on the Primary Curriculum has surfaced since the Revised Estimates were produced after the budget. The document has a lot to recommend it. I am concerned that there is no provision recommended for a European language at national schools. These documents are fine but they are aspirational. My major criticism of these Estimates is that they make very little provision for any real improvements. I believe it is necessary to produce such documents, talking shops, but if the political resolve is not there and no resources are provided to bring about the improvements recommended in them they are just an exercise in nonsense and will be left to gather dust. On the basis of present trends, I am afraid that that is what will happen to this document.
The statistics I quoted earlier underline the problem of burnout among teachers.
The fact that there can be still up to 40 children in a classroom, after the publication of that document shows once again the nonsense of producing these documents when there is no political will on the part of the Government to impliment the changes needed.
When the pupil-teacher ratio is too high those children who need to escape the poverty trap are not given the opportunity to do so. The number of emotionally disturbed school children is definitely increasing. In reply to a parliamentary question today the Minister said that the three very welcome pilot projects which are up and running at present would be monitored over a three-year period but no further action would be taken during that time.
When one considers that teachers are increasingly coming under more and more stress in the classroom it is not good enough for the Minister to say that there will be no improvement in this fundamental area for three years.
There are a number of children who in their own interests and the interests of their fellow pupils and teachers, need to be put into a new environment. Many of them need a one-to-one relationship in the short-term. These children can relate to adults in a one-to-one situation but they cannot do so when they are put into groups. These children suffer from psychological problems and a poor selfimage due to their deprived backgrounds. In many cases they come from emotionally deprived backgrounds rather than materially deprived backgrounds. I believe many parents who have good incomes do not put enough into their children. As a teacher, I can recognise very quickly those children who are not spoken to at home by their parents. For example, their language ability is not developed and they are not able to articulate properly.
Both at Question Time today and in his contribution this evening Deputy Bruton spoke at some length about access to third level education. I agree with much of what the Deputy has said about this issue. With regard to eligibility for third level grants both in the VEC and university sectors, I submit that the income limit rigidly applied to PAYE workers and those in the self-employed sector do not always come in for the same scrutiny. I wonder how some tax inspectors can come up with such a low income in certain circumstances.
The Deputy has less than one minute left. I have to be fair with time now.
We often lose sight of the problems faced by parents who have a number of children in third level education and whose income is marginally over the grant eligibility limit. It is very important for some provision to be made urgently for those parents so that their children will be able to attend third level education. Many children cannot attend university because of socio-economic reasons but there can also be geographical factors involved. The Minister has told us that we will see the colleges Bill in the autumn. I urge her to extend the provision in relation to university degree courses at regional colleges so that many disadvantaged children can attend such courses. Because there is no university in Waterford a child from there has half the chance of a child from Cork, where there is a university, of getting a university degree. This is also the case in many other areas.
As I have said previously, education is an issue of immense importance to everybody in politics. If the health issue had not brought down the Government last year they would have been brought down on the education issue. Anyone who looks at the number of questions put down to the Minister for Education today must realise the importance of education and the pressure being placed on politicians due to the lack of facilities in education.
During the sixties and seventies progress was made in education but the eighties can be regarded largely as a lost decade and a period of retrenchment and cutbacks. Progress was made in the areas of counselling, psychological services and remedial teaching but as Deputy O'Shea said there was a reduction in the number of remedial teachers and the counselling and psychological services were dropped completely. Many school buildings are scruffy looking because principals have been left with the responsibilities for maintaining and cleaning them. Unfortunately there does not seem to be any planning for further developments in the nineties. The Minister seems to be winding-down the eighties rather than moving ahead with new developments.
We have the worst funded schools in the EC and there is no point in the Minister talking about the extra millions of pounds which will be put into education this year. We also have the largest classes in the EC with 26,000 pupils in classes of 40 and over. That is a concept from the thirties, forties or fifties. There are remedial teachers in only one-third of our primary schools. The appointment of 95 new teachers does not seem to indicate that some 2,000 schools will have remedial teachers in the next decade.
I want to refer to the reduction of the six-year cycle to five years. There are about 58 private fee paying schools in the country. Yet three out of four of those schools maintain a six-year cycle while only one out of every five of the so-called free education schools have a six-year cycle. A five-year cycle is being imposed on State schools. Because the taxpayer funds these private, fee paying schools to the extent of £22 million a year it makes this inequity all the more inexcusable and increases the inequality which has been moving into the education area over the past decade.
The Workers' Party have continually drawn attention to the lack of funding available for schools and to the so-called free education area. Our Constitution states that the State shall provide free primary education or, as it states in Irish, "Ní foláir don Stát ..." However, this is not the case at present and, as the Minister has pointed out the public, the community and parents have to pay 25 per cent of the costs involved. The State pay the rest so there is no free primary education. Parents are required to make a voluntary contribution, which varies enormously. I heard of one school which looked for a £20 contribution per family this year. This was sent out at the beginning of the school year. You may think that was bad but the next one — admittedly in a much higher income area — said that the agreed level of local contribution this year is £60 for one child, £90 for two children and £120 for three or more children. Of course the school in an area which can charge £60, £90 or £120 is in far better condition and has more up-todate equipment than the school which charged £20. Indeed, the sum of £20 is more than can be charged in some areas, where they find it very difficult to get £5 per family. Their schools are run-down and badly equipped.
There are still very large classes at a time of very high teacher unemployment. People have said that there are too many teachers; that is not true, there are too few teachers in classes. If we were to reach the same pupil-teacher ratio as Northern Ireland we would need an extra 3,000 teachers.
A few weeks ago, on an Adjournment debate, I drew attention to the lack of ancillary staff in schools and the loss of posts of caretakers, secretaries and child care assistants. There are 3,400 primary schools in the country and only 278 are served by a caretaker. In the past eight years 180 caretaker posts were lost in primary schools, a false economy, because schools are becoming dilapidated due to lack of maintenance. Large campuses are expected to be maintained by principals, teachers or parents. However, teachers should teach and principals should be doing administrative work. I call for the immediate reinstatement of the 180 caretaker posts lost over the years and for a plan for the provision of caretakers and secretaries in all schools.
Some of the cruellest cuts have been in special schools where classroom assistance and child care staff have been cut back. A relatively small number of posts are required to help children with special needs.
I should like to give two minutes of my time to Deputy Dempsey, with the permission of the House.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
An allocation of £8.9 million — compared to £8 million last year — was made to youth funding this year. The emphasis in the allocation of this money was towards disadvantaged young people with approximately £3.7 million going to projects specifically targeted at the disadvantaged. In addition, there is a youth service grant scheme of £3.5 million where again this year we have made every effort to ensure that, as far as possible, the money is targeted at working class areas and others where young people are underprivileged in various ways. We have also established a network of youth information centres throughout the country for which we provided £5.5 million. There has also been major progress in regard to the whole area of youth exchange and work with the youth exchange bureau and we have continued the development of youth services at local level throughout the country.
Under the Presidency, we made major progress in the European youth card which will increase mobility for young people from this country travelling throughout Europe. We will be taking further initiatives in regard to this programme throughout the summer to give practical implementation to the European youth card.
Very significant progress is being made in relation to the development of sport. We have appointed a considerable number of administrators and coaches to the various governing bodies of sport. A couple of months ago the House of Sport was opened which is an office development used by the smaller sporting organisations. With the appointment of full time development personnel, plus the "sport for all" organisations, a major initiative is now being taken in that respect following the very successful "be active, be alive" campaign this year. The institute of leisure and recreational development are also making progress to professionalise the management and maintenance of sports facilities.
On the capital side, I am very pleased that we have now short-listed the four consortia who will make the final submissions on the national sports centre. We have received from those consortia very exciting proposals for an indoor national sports centre up to international level, one which will match the best in the country. In regard to the regional centres, by the same method of procurement we now have a considerable number of proposals for Cork and Sligo and the closing date for the Athlone centre is in about two weeks time. We are at present finalising discussions in regard to the Galway centres. All the 18 local sports centres are now in progress.
The Minister's time must be up.
The question of an outdoor stadium has been the subject of interest in recent times. The Government consider that it is not feasible to construct an outdoor sports stadium on a green field site. Consequently, the development of the national outdoor stadium will be in one of the existing stadia. In that respect, we have been having discussions for quite some time with the various governing bodies for sport on the question of rationalisation and on the development of an existing stadium.
I am pleased to announce to the House that we have now completed planning on the development of Santry Stadium as the national athletics stadium. A small stand has been installed and there has been complete refurbishment of the track and infield area to make Santry the primary athletics and domestic soccer stadium in the country.
Deputy Fahey should allow Deputy Dempsey to speak.
I wish to thank you, the House and the Minister of State for allowing me to speak for two minutes on the Estimates for the Department of Education. I wish to congratulate the Minister on her stewardship over the last three years. It has been a very difficult period economically and, because Education is a high spending budget, it was expected it would suffer. However, thanks to the Minister, to her commitment to education and her interest in all aspects of her portfolio, education has done well in the circumstances.
Our system of education, although we may criticise it now and again, was — and still is — the best in Europe. During the term of the Fine Gael-Labour Coalition the then Minister, the former Deputy Hussey, abolished the post of career guidance counsellor in schools with fewer than 500 pupils. This was a retrograde step and the effects are still being felt as there is a higher drop-out rate in schools and many young people are leaving school without any qualification or idea of what they want to do.
I know the Minister is actively seeking to redress the problem——
The Deputy must conclude now as the Minister must reply in less than a minute.
This is ridiculous, they were given seven and a half minutes.
I am sorry about that.
I ask her to continue the good work.
This is ridiculous altogether.
I would also like to acknowledge the increase in the youth service funding from £3 million in 1987 to £10 million in the current year.
I have to be very strict on this. I am calling the Minister for Education.
With your permission, Sir, I will speak for three minutes. I am giving a minute to Deputy Michael Barrett and a minute to Deputy Jimmy Deenihan, with the agreement of the House.
Agreed.
In three minutes, I cannot address all the issues I want to. I thank the Deputies — I am giving Deputy Deenihan a minute.
It is not the Minister, it is her colleagues.
I thank the Deputies who contributed to the debate. We really will have to get more time for all the Estimates but for Education in particular. I would like to go through all the points raised but there is not time.
To answer Deputy Bruton, it is a long while since I heard such hypocritical duplicity as he used to address the issue of third level grants. He is the very person who is writing to my Department with representations about people whom a county council have deemed not eligible and who have brought the matter further, and then he comes in and talks about the need to have equity——
I represent my constituents when they request me to do it.
It is duplicity and hypocrisy of the highest order in any stratum of society.
No interruptions now.
Anybody who asks my help will receive it.
The same man talks about the transition year. He closed it at a swoop when he was Minister for Finance. He demanded it be withdrawn immediately. It was the same with caretakers and secretaries and with all the matters he has brought up here. His contribution was bluster and blow with not a single item of fact or reality in it. His hypocritical duplicity about the third level grants would appal one, except I know the position, having read his correspondence.
I thank Deputy O'Shea who hit just as hard but his contribution was based on facts, particularly with regard to the Colleges Bill and what needs to be done there in equity with regard to third level entry.
I thank the Minister for allowing me time. I want to refer to a matter in my constituency, that is St. Aidan's School, Whitehall. The Minister is aware of this and she has met several deputations about it from the constituency. This school was built over 25 years ago; it has 700 students and is in a deplorable condition. The parents' committee, the teaching staff and the students would like me to remind the Minister about his project. I ask her to make a commitment, in the near future if she cannot do so today, that a new school will be built for St. Aidan's whenever possible.
I would like to highlight two problems, disadvantaged students within our schools and the increasing use of temporary and part-time teachers as opposed to whole-time teaching staff. I appeal to the Minister that whatever resources are available be targeted towards alleviating disadvantage within our education system. I ask too that she stop the exploitation of our young teachers by employing them on a part-time and temporary basis where permanent jobs are available. This is ridiculous. In some schools the position has become so farcical that the majority of staff are part-time. Surely no school can operate properly on this basis. Even in areas where the school's population merits whole-time appointments, jobs are still being filled with part-time and temporary staff.
I must ask the Deputy to conclude.
This is wrong from the point of view of both students and teachers and I would like the Minister to address that problem.
That concludes the debate on Estimates for Education.
