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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 12 Jul 1990

Vol. 401 No. 6

Estimates 1990. - Vote 32: Agriculture and Food (Revised Estimate).

I move:

That a sum not exceeding £158,127,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December 1990, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for Agriculture and Food, including certain services administered by that Office, and of the Irish Land Commission, and for payment of certain grants, subsidies and sundry grants-in-aid.

As Ireland's largest industry, the performance of agriculture is a key component of our overall economic growth strategy. I am, therefore, pleased to be able to report that the success of the Government's agriculture and food policies were clearly evident in the very strong performance of agriculture in 1989.

While there have been significant price reductions in 1990 compared with 1989 for the main sectors, the overall effect will be offset, to some extent, by an increase in the volume of production of beef, sheep and pigs. However, taking all the factors together some drop in aggregate farm income this year appears likely. This drop must viewed against an increase of 52 per cent in farm income since 1986, compared with inflation of 10 per cent over the same period. It must also be stressed that the drop is due to changed market circumstances. I have used every opportunity to press the Commission to maximise Community supports to counterbalance the effects of the market downturn. This pressure is already bearing considerable fruit. Furthermore I am seeking to ensure that grants and premium payments which are important for farm income are paid with the least delay possible.

This year's Estimate is for a gross amount of over £313 million. This does not represent anything like the total of my Department's overall spending as some £1,000 million funded by the European Community is being paid by my Department to farmers and agri-business in 1990 and a further £500 million funded from borrowings will be spent on the purchase of products into intervention. In 1990, between domestic and EC funds, my Department will disburse over £1,800 million. This underlines the strong national and Community commitment to Irish agriculture.

As President of the Council of Agriculture Ministers for the first half of 1990, my primary responsibility has been to ensure the adoption of the EC Commission's price proposals for 1990-91. This was achieved on 27 April last following prolonged negotiations with the value of the final package, as adopted, worth in excess of £90 million annually to Irish producers. The principal benefits result from green £ adjustments and improved intervention arrangements — involving significantly reduced payment delays for milk, beef and cereals. However, the element which gives me greatest satisfaction from a personal point of view is undoubtedly the rural world element which formed an integral part of the overall package. That the agreement on this year's farm prices was achieved so comparatively early and against a background of Communitywide difficulty in a number of product sectors, is, I believe, a tribute both to Ireland's Presidency and to the Farm Council as a whole. However, this early agreement itself entails tangible benefits for farmers in as much as it will engender increased confidence throughout the industry and facilitate improved management and planning for the year ahead.

The ongoing, steady progress towards completion of the Internal Market has itself had an important bearing upon the shape and content of our Presidency. In view of this I identified progress on harmonisation of Community legislation in the animal and plant health areas as meriting the highest priority, whether viewed from an EC or a national perspective. I, therefore, devoted considerable effort to advancing proposals for the adoption of a non-vaccination policy throughout the Community for the control of foot and mouth disease and for the establishment of an EC veterinary fund as a contingency against the propagation of major animal disease outbreaks. I am particularly pleased, therefore, to report that the June Council agreed a major veterinary package which included both these elements in addition to a proposal for the abolition of border checks on live animals.

Community-wide measures were also agreed in respect of trade in live horses, live poultry and pig semen while rules which will facilitate Ireland's very valuable live export trade in cattle through the establishment of a leukosis free position, were also agreed. Of major importance to consumers too is the Council's adoption of marketing controls in relation to veterinary products as well as specific tolerance levels for these products in foodstuffs. The Agriculture Council adopted more Internal Market proposals during our Presidency than it did in any previous six month period and in all 134 legislative proposals were adopted, far in excess of any previous Presidency.

BSE was also a focus of attention at EC level. Unilateral actions against imports of UK beef led to an unprecedented situation within the European Community, which posed a real danger to Community cohesion and harmony in matters of trade. I immediately called an emergency meeting of the Agriculture Council which met on 6 June to deal with the problem and after long and difficult negotiations, we managed to achieve a solution which was acceptable all round and which enabled the unilateral actions to be immediately ended. This result headed off what would have been a trade crisis in Europe the effect of which would have extended way beyond agriculture.

In so far as the present round of GATT multilateral trade negotiations are concerned, as I have already indicated in this House, the Community approach is to provide that overall supports for agriculture are subject to more clear cut rules and are fixed at levels whereby more balanced markets and a more market oriented trading system obtain. During my period as President of the Council I ensured that the Agriculture Council was fully involved in developing and maintaining the Community's negotiating position. I was very pleased that the Council unanimously confirmed the Community's global approach at its meetings in April and June, declared that the basic principles of the Common Agricultural Policy were not negotiable and stressed that full credit should be obtained for past reform measures. The Council also decided that Agriculture Ministers will continue to be involved to the greatest possible extent in the negotiations. The European solidarity which we were able to bring about through unanimous decisions — never an easy achievement at the Council of Ministers — was a major factor in resisting the American demands for elimination of agriculture supports in the EC and the fact is that for the first time ever at the Houston meeting the Americans have dropped their demand for elimination of support and have recognised the need for a balanced and global approach which has always been the EC position. The negotiations can now continue and the contribution of our Presidency will have been seen to have been very significant.

Much has been made of various comments on the GATT over the last few days. Perhaps too much attention has been devoted to what was not, of course, a negotiating session and, even in that context, to what were off-stage remarks. The real negotiations have yet to take place. It is important to remember that in these negotiations, the Community has a clear and unambiguous position. We are prepared to negotiate to achieve a more sensible and coherent world trading order for agriculture. This would benefit all GATT members. We are not prepared to negotiate away the principles or mechanisms of the CAP.

Let me stress that there is no case for a Special Summit arising from the Houston conclusions. Quite the contrary, as even a request for such a meeting would mistakenly convey the notion that these conclusions reflected the American demand for the elimination of supports which they certainly do not.

I am entirely satisfied that the Irish Presidency of the Agriculture Council has identified, in a realistic and balanced manner, those priorities which are in the best interest of the Community as a whole and in our own best interest as committed participants in the new Europe which is emerging. Following our stewardship of the Community's agricultural affairs, we will be seen to have bequeathed to our successors a record of solid achievement and not least as regards realisation of Single Market objectives. I am gratified that, as a consequence of my Presidency, the lot of the Community's citizens — farmers and non-farmers alike — will have been substantially improved arising from the completion of a comprehensive range of rural development, environmental and consumer oriented measures.

Officials of my Department were required to chair over 40 different committees and their success in this mammoth task has been praised by officials and Ministers alike. For my own part I am, of course, gratified by the tributes we have received from the President of the Commission, the incoming President of the Council and the Secretary General of the Council Secretariat.

I have already dealt in broad outline with the outturn for agriculture and food in 1989, the outlook for this year and with the broad scope of the Estimates. In the restricted time available there is not much opportunity to deal with these issues much further but there are two specific subheads — D5 Organic Farming and L1 Farm Investment — to which I would like to refer because of particular developments in those areas. In the light of Deputies' remarks I will respond on other subheads and other agricultural issues as necessary.

Environmental concern has also been a major theme of my Presidency and accordingly, I have given a ready welcome to proposals in this regard which have emerged from the Commission. An example of such is a measure which aims to establish a uniform European framework for the production, inspection and labelling of foodstuffs produced organically without the use of synthetic materials. During the Presidency, very substantial progress was achieved in respect of this difficult and complex proposal and, in fact, at the Council on 25 and 26 June it was agreed in principle, subject to the opinion of the European Parliament and the clearance of some outstanding technical points.

Ireland, of course, is in a particularly advantageous position to benefit from the growing, contemporary interest in alternative farming practices. Accordingly, my Department's organic unit is now actively exploring how best to exploit this development and to capitalise on our image as a reliable source of sound, wholesome and natural food, in particular, as the completion of the Single Market comes even nearer. On this we are working closely with the Organic Growers Association which is being supported financially from the subhead. We are also developing programmes for research, education, advice and demonstration projects in the organic sector.

At the outset of my Presidency of the Agriculture Council, I emphasised my personal interest in achieving improved economic, social and environmental living conditions for the Community's rural society. I have briefly referred already to the rural world measures which formed part of this year's prices agreement. At national level, we have consistently taken the view that the CAP must be informed by social considerations and obviously this attitude is all the more important having regard to the various output restraints and market stabilisers which have been put in place over recent years. As a Presidency we have maintained our historic commitment to developing rural society and keeping farming families on the land.

Farming will, or course, continue to be the mainstay of the rural economy. However, we must recognise that, especially with the introduction of stabilisers and the reorientation of the Common Agricultural Policy, we must look increasingly to non-traditional activities and to the non-agricultural sector to provide the income and job opportunities required to maintain a stable rural community. All elements of the Community Support Framework, including the nonagriculture measures i.e. the tourism, industry and peripherality programmes will have a major impact on rural areas. In addition, however, it will be necessary to encourage initiatives not covered by other programmes and these are provided for in the operational programme for rural development. I am proposing to the Commission that the programme will cover such areas as alternative enterprises and a national agri-tourism scheme and increased funding for marketing by CBF. It will also cover rural infrastructural items such as fishery harbours and rural roads and will provide also the mechanism for the development of human resources through the funding of the training and educational activities carried out by Teagasc. I hope to have European Community approval to introduce the various measures within the next few months.

As the House knows, the Government in October 1988 launched a pilot programme for integrated rural development in twelve selected areas. The programme is based on the principle of involving local communities in selecting their own development priorities and then in undertaking the responsibility to work towards achieving those aspirations. At the end of the two-year pilot period in October 1990, an assessment will be made that will enable us to decide on the design of a nationwide programme for the development of all rural areas. The results of the pilot scheme so far are very encouraging, and indeed, in order to ensure that the momentum which has been generated is not lost while the programme is being assessed after October, I have decided to extend the operation of the programme until the end of the year in order to ensure that there is no lacuna between the ending of the pilot programme and the putting in place of follow-up arrangements. The elaboration of such arrangements should be greatly helped by the recently signalled Community initiative on rural development.

In conclusion I am confident that the Government's current economic strategy, coupled with a practical and businesslike response from those involved in the industry, will prove the right recipe for our future success. I am sorry that the time allowed, permitted me to give a very brief summary of all the activities in the Department. I will listen carefully to the debate and take up some other points that may arise.

In the very short time at my disposal also — which I understand is ten minutes — I want to say I oppose the Estimates on this occasion for a variety of reasons. I note that the Minister claimed credit for the manner in which the Presidency was carried out. I will not refer to that as such as it is the benefits of the Presidency I am worried about. Whether by accident or design Irish agriculture never had it so bad as during the six months of the Irish Presidency. Obviously we cannot suggest that because we had the Presidency that was the reason things went wrong. There can be no doubt that Irish farmers are centainly much worse off as a result of some of the things which have happened to which I will refer very briefly.

It is true to say we are now witnessing in agriculture 1974 proportions all over again. I have noticed that the Minister has said several times in the House, during the last few months, that as far as he can see there is no real disaster in Irish agriculture. In the Department's own outlook for agriculture and food industry — whenever it was written, possibly at the end of last year — the predictions are totally wrong. Farm incomes will be away lower than what is predicted here. I admit it is difficult to look at those matters even a year in advance, but surely the pointers and the trends were at the Department's disposal. If we cannot get it right for our own Irish environment it is very difficult to understand the problems and the complications that will set in as a result of the Houston Summit meeting yesterday. I should like to make it clear that we lost in Houston yesterday. It can be covered up in any shape or form but whoever will be here in the next two or three years will find that what I have said is absolutely correct. Whether or not it was coming is another story but it certainly arrived on our doorstep at Houston yesterday. There are two reasons for this, one has to do with the composition of the G7 — the seven most industrialised countries in the world. It is very significant that four of those countries are the main paymasters to the EC fund. I wonder what communication took place between the Commission the Council of Ministers, the President and so on on what actually happened in Houston this week. Who was told exactly what was going to happen? There are many ways of brushing over problems of this type as can be seen from the communique which came from Houston; actually they are all contradictory. There is one important factory in it. So far as we are concerned the price support mechanisms that we are used to in Irish agriculture and, indeed, in European agriculture will never be the same. I make this statement boldly having studied this subject for years.

The Common Agricultural Policy as we know it has taken a turn for the worst following the Summit at Houston yesterday. I defy contradiction and I will argue it on any platform anywhere because of what I have seen. Let us consider some of the participants. Britain always has a cheap food policy and have been the cause of many or our economic troubles over the years because we were tied to their market. For obvious reasons they appear to have won. More important, in West Germany the whole price policy concept of the Common Agricultural Policy is more expensive on them than anybody else; everybody is aware of that and I do not have time to go through the detailed figures.

Because of what has happened in all the Eastern European countries and especially in East Germany it is only reasonable to believe that, so far as Germany was concerned, they would have to take great note of their financial commitments in the future. A recent study which was carried out — which I am sure the Minister fully understands and has examined — showed that if world prices prevailed in Germany at present, obviously their Exchequer would have a huge saving, but their unemployment rate would fall, they would lose some farmers but they would create many more jobs outside of that. Against that background there are the Italians and the French to a lesser degree and the Americans are on the other side.

All I will say in the very limited time at my disposal is simply this: it appears to me that whoever pays the piper is beginning to call the tune. There were eight countries who were entitled to be at that meeting for that decision. So far as industrial development is concerned we would not be in that league. When the Minister is replying I want him to give me some indication of the communication there was between the EC and that G7 group. I believe this was an initiative taken by that G7 group themselves. It is against that background I genuinely believe that their decisions constitute a bad day for all Irish farmers, large or small, and that they will live to regret it.

At one stage or another 325 million people voted to join what was then regarded as the European Community, the EC. Many joined for a variety of reasons I have not time to go into now. But nine million farmers voted for a particular reason, in order to gain a reasonable return for their labours, something to which they had never been able to aspire over the years, in order to get away from the peaks and valleys, the slump periods. That was their genuine reason for joining. Large and small farmers alike were attracted to the system. People may contend that it suited only the large farmers; that is not correct; many small farmers would have been wiped off the face of the earth were it not for what has happened, admittedly at a much slower rate than would have been desired. However, what they voted for was this club, as they perceived it which would enable them to produce a quality product to which the consumers of Europe would have access, the best food available, not cheap food, but food.

No matter how we change the system, the principles of the Treaty of Rome in so far as the Common Agricultural Policy is concerned, form the major part of it. It constituted a safety mechanism, providing a limit below which prices would not fall. I am sufficiently long in the tooth to know that, no matter how it is organised, there will be peaks and valleys in agriculture. But the knowledge of there being a safeguard, knowing that prices would not fall below a certain level, meant there was some hope of a reasonable living to be had for farmers.

I contend that, as a result of decisions taken in Houston yesterday over the next ten years there will be a reduction effected in such a way that, were we looking at the Common Agricultural Policy as it performs now in, say, five or six years' time, one might well think one was looking at two different concepts. I note from the Minister's remarks that as far as he is concerned, he has decided that everything was all right in Houston yesterday. Unfortunately time will prove the Minister to have been wrong.

I hesitate to interrupt Deputy Connaughton but the time available to him is almost exhausted. He might now bring his speech to a close.

I am sorry I have not a chance to expand somewhat on my views on this matter. I asked the Taoiseach and the Minister to allow us time in this House to discuss at greater length — I believe it would warrant a full day's debate — the overall GATT negotiations. We were absolutely entitled to seek such a debate and be given it. Nonetheless we were not given that opportunity, perhaps for reasons best known to the Minister himself. Irish agriculture never had it so bad. Even at this late stage the Minister should acknowledge that we are encountering huge problems in many areas. The Minister has lost control. Every Irish farmer accepts what I am saying. The Minister has lost control. Every Irish farmer accepts what I am saying and the Minister must know that as well as I do.

The attitude of the Government and perhaps that also of the Minister to agriculture, our primary industry, is reflected in the fact that we have a mere one hour in this House devoted to what should be a primary debate. Everything else in our economy and society is affected by agriculture and the way in which that industry is managed. We have ten minutes allocated to each spokesperson, within that one hour, to debate this issue, reflecting the attitude of the Government, if not that of the Minister, to his portfolio.

On a personal basis — and I regret to say so — probably the Minister is the worst Minister for Agriculture we have had in modern times. Under his stewardship there has been no policy, no position taken on agriculture as an industry. We have had a series of ad hoc decisions, a stumbling from crisis to crisis. There is a disastrous position obtaining within the industry, the beef industry having practically collapsed. In the sheep area, lambs fetching £75 per head last year are being sold now for £30, that is if they can be sold at all. In addition, the wool of the same sheep cannot be sold and is stored in farmers' sheds. There is a milk quota system that discriminates directly in favour of the large farmer despite lip service having been given to small farmers on the part of the Minister. In addition there are further threatened cuts in that quota system. When replying the Minister should at least assure us that, if such further cuts take place in the milk quota system, farmers with under 30,000 gallons production will be exempt from any such qouta reduction.

I suggest to the House that the Minister is unable to cope with his brief, as has been proved by the disasters in his wake. Indeed in a recent soft interview in a newspaper article he admitted that, during the term of the Irish Presidency, certain areas had been neglected, an amazing admission on the part of a Minister. He appears not alone to be unable to cope with his brief but, in addition, to be unaware of the disastrous conditions obtaining within Irish agriculture.

I wish to refer now to Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy, or BSE, as it is commonly known. When this condition was brought to the attention of the public, having been known to scientists and policymakers for some time, the Minister acted in desperation. He defended British beef interests. He opposed the first import ban on British products back in February and dismissed any scientific evidence suggesting that the disease might have some effect on consumer health. The Minister has whitewashed the mad cow disease issue, politically tying jobs and exports to British beef interests. He has claimed there is no evidence that BSE is transmissible to humans. In reply to a parliamentary question I had tabled on 27 June last the Minister stated that it had been confirmed, at the highest scientific level, that BSE was not considered to be a risk to public health. The Minister knows that that answer was totally misleading. Since BSE has a 15 to 20 years incubation period, no one can say, not the Minister, scientists or anybody else, whether the disease is transmissible to humans. To say otherwise is grossly misleading and dangerous. Indeed even within the past few days, in a leading medical journal, it is reported that not only is BSE transmissible to humans, but that there are many other diseases which may be considered to be related thereto. This increases the possibility that BSE may be transmissible to humans. The Minister's actions and attitudes to this issue have been irresponsible and dangerous.

The Minister appears to be totally unaware of the widespread rural poverty obtaining. In the course of his introductory remarks he has said that it is the policy to retain as many family farmers as possible. Since we joined the EC — supposed to be the Mecca for farmers — 150,000 farmers have been driven off our land, as a direct result of the operation of the Common Agricultural Policy and the total reliance of this Government and past Governments, on this price support mechanism for farm incomes. That system has guaranteed that 80 per cent of all of the subsidies emanating from the Common Agricultural Policy has gone to 20 per cent of top level farmers, those not in need. There is sufficient money available from these sources to ensure that every farmer has a proper income. It must be directed away from those who do not need it to those who do.

A new organisation for low income farmers has now been formed, spawned out of desperation, by way of a last ditch stand for survival, a determination on the part of these low income farmers to remain within the rural economy, securing a decent living for themselves and their families. I refer to the United Farmers' Association, comprised of former members of the IFA and the ICMSA, former members of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, all four organisations having failed to tackle the problems facing these farmers. The proof of that failure is that 150,000 families in that category have been driven off the land during the last number of years.

I welcome and support the arrival on the farming scene of this organisation and the policies they are putting forward. These low income farmers need an alternative agricultural policy if they are to survive, and present policies, or lack of policy, will ensure they will be driven from the land in ever increasing numbers. Such an alternative would include a transitional two tier pricing mechanism to benefit low income farmers; land structure and milk quota reforms through a new land agency; subsidies for alternative farming, for conversion to organic farming and for rural conservation; development of alternative rural industrialisation policies and provision of a basic incomes policy for full time farmers. In regard to this I would ask the Minister to examine specifically the possibility of introducing a family income supplement type payment to farmers who do not have an economic income from their holdings to ensure that they can be kept on the land.

These policies would directly subsidise people working full time in agriculture and would increase low incomes without distorting the price mechanisms which penalise consumers, especially low income consumers, and will ensure that the maximum number of families are retained in the rural economy. It might be too much to ask the Minister to use the Supplementary Estimates to move in some way towards mechanisms that would have the effect of shifting emphasis from price supports. However, the failure of the Minister to do so will continue the cycle of poverty, emigration and rural depletion which are the realities. The Pontius Pilate type washing of his hands by the Minister and a seeming unawareness of the crisis that exist, of the desperation of large numbers of people in the rural economy who are being driven out, and lip service being paid in their direction for a long number of years, have forced these people into forming a breakaway organisation from the main structures of agriculture.

The Minister has told us that it is not his job to intervene directly but to put in place the necessary structures and create the correct climate. He has done neither and the outcome is that agriculture is now in an absolutely desperate situation, with large numbers of people in the rural areas in dire poverty with nothing facing them but the emigrant boat.

For these reasons the Labour Party will be opposing the Estimate.

Agriculture should make the maximum contribution to the Irish economy in the form of optimum productivity at farm level, allied to well developed linkages with the rest of the economy, involving both support industries and services and downstream processing and marketing. The present situation in Irish agriculture leaves much to be desired in these areas.

An effective land policy, allied to effective employment and welfare policies outside agriculture, is required in order to encourage those with sufficient land resources to make their land available through sale or leasing to others who can make better use of it. In the interests of maximum efficiency Irish agricultural producers should be adequately trained and should have at their disposal adequate resources, including land, to allow them to generate an adequate income from farming.

The primary function of the agricultural sector should be to provide food of adequate quality in sufficient and regular supply to consumers at reasonable cost. Agricultural producers should, of course, receive a reasonable income for their produce. It is desirable that farmers should control to the maximum extent possible the downstream processing and marketing of their produce both in their own interests and in order to secure Irish control of this sector of vital importance. State policy in relation to agriculture should vigorously promote this objective.

I want to call on the Minister again to publish the report of the interdepartmental committee on the future of the Irish Sugar Company and to allow a full debate on it. The report has been finalised and is with the Government, who are withholding publication until the Dáil rises for the summer recess, so Deputies will not have an opportunity to discuss it until October. It is now virtually certain that, despite all the progress made by the company in recent years, it has joined the long list of Fianna Fáil targets for privatisation. It is of particular concern to the workforce that, having made considerable sacrifices in recent years to get the economy back into efficient and profitable order, they are now about to be sold off to private interests without consultation with or consideration of the needs of the workers. In recent years the workers have agreed to a major redundancy programme, including the closure of the Tuam and Thurles factories. It seems, however, that their reward for the co-operative approach is to be sold off to the highest bidder. I find it extraordinary that as soon as a company starts to make a profit the Government starts talking about selling it off.

The failure to properly develop our agricultural sector and food industry must be considered to be one of the greatest failures of national policy since the foundation of the State. Given our favourable climatic conditions and the quality of our soil and environment, we should have a viable and developing agricultural sector, and our food industry should be making a major contribution to feeding the people of Europe. Instead the numbers on the land continue to decline, and we are importing more and more food. There is a need for a complete overhaul and reappraisal of our national approach to agricultural development. Rationalisation and co-ordination of existing agencies and schemes in the context of the formulation of an overall long-term plan involving the establishment of a farm and food development authority, is an urgent necessity if the country's greatest national resource is to begin to make a contribution to tackling the problems of poverty and unemployment which it is capable of doing.

Change is coming whether we like it or not. The immediate elimination of the farm subsidy along the lines being advocated by the United States would, of course, be disastrous for Irish farmers. Indeed it is quite hypocritical for the United States to be demanding the elimination of EC farm subsidies when they are so extensively subsidising their own farmers. However, it simply does not make sense to continue to subsidise the production of large quantities of foodstuffs that people do not want and that cannot be sold.

We have mentioned previously the transfer through Structural Funds of which this country receives a greater amount under the Common Agricultural Policy. It is estimated, and it was previously stated, that as much as 80 per cent of all price support spent on farming goes to those in the top 20 per cent income bracket. This is clearly not justifiable and the introduction of a two tier price system would ensure that public money would go to those who need it most. The aim should be to subsidise the producer rather than the project, in other words, provide financial assistance, if necessary, for small and medium size farmers to continue to operate, but stop the wasteful practice of paying large farmers to produce products that are not needed. The Minister should subsidise the producer, not the product.

I want to refer briefly to a submission made to me. Have I much time left, a Cheann Comhairle?

The Deputy is due to conclude at 11.32 a.m. He has four minutes left.

Go raibh maith agat. Having studied a submission made to me by the United Farmers Group, I see that the very important and relevant point is made that a new land authority in place of the abolished Land Commission should be instituted to ensure that land does not change hands purely on market prices, and to assist the development of farmers. There is no control over the sale of land here, and it is going into the hands of people who are not using it for agricultural or productive purposes. A farm advisory system should be available to people on low incomes.

They also want a review of the inheritance tax and a revision of the milk quota system where 30,000 gallons would now be the minimum for viability. They refer also to the grants for disadvantaged areas. Such grants should be paid to disadvantaged farmers. As was mentioned previously, the sheep subsidy should have a cut-off point at 200 sheep. In recent years this subsidy has been exploited by the large farmers who changed to sheep farming simply to obtain EC cash. We have no wool marketing policy, no wool marketing board, and all these matters need to be addressed.

I will conclude this morning by appealing to the Minister not to proceed with the policy that is now being put into effect by the Department of Agriculture and Food, that is, the restriction on farm visits and inspections in the matter of considering applications under the various schemes and premiums. That would be disastrous for this country. Successive surveys by the Department of Agriculture and Food have shown that these inspections would save the taxpayers millions of pounds. The present proposals could lead to fraud. The EC are at present examining this matter. This could also lead to the non-payment of grants, which would not be acceptable.

I will give a very brief outline of the savings that would accrue to the state as a result of on-farm inspections. If an application is made for a premium under any of the headings, who is to establish the bona fide of that application if no investigation is carried out? In the area of calf premiums, where there have been 109,000 applications and expenditure of £11.2 million, the saving would have been 5.3 per cent or £593,600; in the case of suckler cow grants where there were 66,915 applications and the cost was £18.3 million, the saving would have been 7.5 per cent; in the beef cow area where the number of applications was 12,155 and the expenditure £5.4 million there would have been a saving of 8.3 per cent. For the special beef premium where there were 92,403 applications at a cost of £13.3 million, the saving would have been 31 per cent. In the cattle headage area——

The Deputy might now bring his speech to a close.

——there were 63,821 applications and the total expenditure was £40 million and in the sheep headage area, there were 26,350 applications and the expenditure was £13.4 million. The saving in that regard would have been 5.9 per cent. I appeal to the Minister to reconsider this matter. His very shortsighted policy could lead to a denial of grants. It would be no fault of the people involved if they made mistakes in completing their application forms.

I must now call another speaker.

(Wexford): I would like to make a few comments on the agricultural scene and particularly to compliment the Minister on his work in the last year as Minister for Agriculture. I would like to highlight a few points, but it is a pity the debate is so short because this is an area on which all sides of the House would like to have a full discussion. The question of the inclusion of new areas for disadvantaged status is being considered by the Community at present and every effort should be made to ensure that this matter is finalised as quickly as possible.

Are you sure they are not in mothballs?

(Wexford): No, not at all. When the Deputy's party were in Government from 1982 to 1987 they made no effort to do anything about this matter.

That is a lie.

(Wexford): I am very pleased the Minister has increased from 3 per cent to 31 per cent the areas with disadvantaged status in Wexford.

I would ask him to take into account the problems in the sheep industry at present. The farming organisations, including the new organisation, the United Farmers Group, have requested the Minister to introduce a number of changes to alleviate the problems for sheep farmers. There are many reasons for the problems in the sheepmeat sector, one of which is the fact that many large dairy farmers went into the sheep industry and there is now a surplus of sheep in the country. On the other hand, the sheep farmer could not get into milk production because of the quota system that applies.

I compliment the Minister on increasing the milk quota by 11 million gallons this year, eight million gallons of which were distributed to the farmers with very small quotas. I hope that position will continue for the next number of years so that these family farmers and their sons will be able to eke out an income on the land. The whole milk quota system needs to be considered. There is a lot of skulduggery in this area, particularly among the larger farmers. The farm organisations and the co-operatives are aware of what is happening in this regard. The Minister should ensure that the surplus quotas that are not used by the larger farmers are given to the smaller farmers.

The Minister has been doing a good job since he became Minister for Agriculture. In Brussels he has fought the cause of the farmer, particularly the small farmer. In his speech today he said the mainstay of the rural economy is the farmer. He mentioned integrated rural development and said that pilot schemes are in operation in the different areas, including County Wexford. This is a very good system whereby farmers can select and develop their own projects and get into agri-tourism and other spin-off industries which add to their income.

I would ask the Minister to consider in particular the crisis in the sheepmeat sector at present — I hope it is only a short-term crisis. Europe is only 85 per cent self sufficient. Lamb is being imported from New Zealand and, at a time of crisis, there should be some system whereby these imports would be banned. Once again, I compliment the Minister on the job he is doing. It is unfortunate we have so little time to debate this whole matter.

Farmers are leaving the country at the rate of five per day.

It is regrettable that we have been given only one hour in a whole year to discuss the biggest industry in the country. It is disgraceful and shows the people, especially the farmers, what the Government think of agriculture. I am Fine Gael spokesman on horticulture. We discussed a Bill dealing with this matter before Christmas when the Minister said he would be appointing a new Bord Glas, but we have not heard anything about is since. I would like to know why that is the case. Is there a row in the Government about who should be on the board? The passing of that Bill has done nothing to improve the industry and I feel very bad about that.

The previous speaker mentioned the crisis in the sheep industry. The Minister should accept there is a crisis in agriculture. Farmers are getting a very small price for their sheep, heifers cannot be sold, beef cows cannot be sold and beef is making only £1.06 per lb. When one considers the costs involved and the overall position of incomes in 1990, the Minister should stop talking about the real increase in farm incomes, which he has been doing for the last three years. He should remember that in two of those years the weather was so bad that farm incomes decreased substantially, and today they are decreasing even further. Farmers who had to borrow money to improve their premises and their farm structures are not able to make their repayments. Unfortunately, we were only given one hour to discuss the Estimate for this very important industry but I ask the Minister to do something about farm incomes before he comes back in October.

It has been a very brief debate and I have only five minutes to reply, so I will deal with the main queries and themes raised by Deputies.

In reply to Deputy Connaughton who raised the question of the GATT negotiations I must tell him that the GATT negotiations have not been conducted in Houston. Deputy Connaughton's complaints seem to be about the composition of the representatives at G7. I have no control over that, the Government have no control over it, and in fact the European Community has no control over that.

That was obvious.

It was not in fact a negotiating session.

Has the Minister any clout at all?

That is a different matter altogether. I did not interrupt anybody, but I must point out to Deputy Connaughton that the Commission were represented at G7, as he appears to think they were not.

Mr. Jacques Delors was there, but he had no say.

The President of the Commission was there. It was not a negotiating session. Negotiations will now continue and I want to point out that as a consequence of the solidarity which we brought about the European Community, the demand from the United States to eliminate supports has been dropped and will not be pursued at the negotiations when they resume next week.

The supports will be reduced.

We will be as firm as ever with our Community partners in ensuring that the Americans will be reminded of some salient facts: there are ten million farmers in Europe compared with two million farmers in America. The average farm size in Europe is nine hectares whereas the average farm size in America is 184 hectares; the average level of subsidy in America is £12,000 compared with the average level of £4,500 in Europe. Let Members have no worries but that we will be constantly reminding the Council of Ministers, when it resumes next week, and the Commission will take these points on board that we have five times the number of farmers in America while our average farm size is one-twentieth that of the American farms. We will continue to preserve the family farm.

People are leaving the small farms at the rate of five per day.

I will now comment on the points that Deputy Stagg raised. I would have treated some of the points raised by Deputy Stagg with some degree of objectivity were it not for the fact that he disclosed his total bias. He went so far as to blame me for the quota system, when the Government in which his party were involved introduced it and did not do one damn thing for the small farmers. If Deputy Stagg can blame me for what they did, it puts in context all his criticism.

The Minister is in office long enough to do something about it.

The Deputy also had the gall to suggest that my handling of the BSE problem — which was recognised to be a major achievement of the Presidency — only looked after the British interest and that I was whitewashing the problem. Any Deputy that is capable of saying that deserves the respect of my silence.

We are getting that.

I will now reply to some of the points raised by Deputy Sherlock. I wish to assure Deputy Sherlock and other Members that there will be a full opportunity to discuss the proposals that will emerge with regard to the structures of Siúicre Éireann and the participation of any other group in that company. Let me assure the Deputy that I am having consultation with the Irish Congress of Trade Unions as well as with the growers, but before any final decisions are taken, this House will have the opportunity to discuss the whole matter.

Will that matter get the same amount of time as we have got today?

Deputy Sherlock also asked about the level of farm inspections and we are moving towards an 80 per cent. level of inspection which compares very favourably with the 20 per cent level on average in the European Community. I am sure the House will be anxious to know that simultaneously, we are introducing a computerised programme which will give us a very much better data base and will enable us to have a data bank for the purpose of ensuring quicker examination and inspection and speedier payments.

Deputy Browne among others raised the question of the collapse of sheep prices. I acknowledge that prices have dropped back in that sector as in others but it has to be recognised that I was able to negotiate earlier this year, when we had indications of a collapse, that the ewe premium would be paid on the double for 1989 and 1990 and this is the first time that has been done. The resultant windfall should at least cushion the adverse market trends. Let me remind Deputies that this problem results from the access to the market of New Zealand lamb, and are Deputies not aware that this concession was negotiated and concluded by Deputy Garret FitzGerald when he was President of the European Council?

Why did the Minister not do something about it?

(Interruptions.)

I want to assure the House that I will continue to minimise the effects of some of the damaging decisions taken during that period.

What was happening in Europe yesterday?

What did the Minister do about VAT on hurleys which he talked about so often when he was in Opposition?

A Deputy

Pipe dreams.

On a point of information, Sir, may I inquire when a vote will be taken on this Estimate?

At 10.45 p.m. as arranged by the Order of the House.

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