Vol. 402 No. 10
10 Mr. Ferris asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will, under equality legislation, pay adult dependant rates to spouses in line with the recipient rates under all relevant social welfare payments; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
The EC Directive 79/7/EEC, adopted by the Council of Ministers on 19 December 1978, required the implementation of equal treatment of men and women in matters of social security. The directive applies to statutory schemes providing protection against sickness, invalidity, old age, accidents at work, occupational diseases and unemployment and social assistance in so far as it is intended to supplement or replace such schemes.
The directive required the elimination of discrimination on the grounds of sex either directly or indirectly by reference to marital or family status with regard to (1) the scope and the conditions of access to the schemes; (2) the obligation to contribute and the calculation of contributions and (3) the calculation of benefits including increases due in respect of a spouse and for dependants, and the conditions governing the duration and retention of entitlement to benefits.
The Social Welfare (No. 2) Act, 1985 removed the discriminatory provisions which existed within the social welfare code at that time so that male and female claimants are now treated on an equal basis as regards access to schemes, conditions for receipt of payment and duration of payment.
There are no outstanding issues under the Equality of Treatment Directive remaining to be introduced.
I thank the Minister for his reply. This question relates somewhat to Question No. 5 but I appreciate that — because of the time factor — the Minister may have been unable to answer both questions together. In replying to my supplementary perhaps the Minister would look at his reply to Question No. 5. Because the changes the Minister has just announced will take place from next week in respect of lone parent's allowance there will then be an anomaly within the category specified in Question No. 5, particularly in cases where there is agreement about divided payments. In such divided payment cases will the Minister agree that — on the basis of equality — women should receive the same amount as the male recipient? Question No. 10 is a slight variation on that. Because the Minister says there are no more anomalies, I hope men and women, either adult dependants or main recipients, will be treated the same. Perhaps the Minister could reply positively to Question No. 5 and give me some hope on Question No. 10.
There is no relation between the two questions on the Order Paper.
It is a question of equality of treatment in certain circumstances.
No, in respect to Question No. 5 there is no reference to Question No. 10.
I would like to give the Deputy some good news. Up to now the amount payable to spouse UA/UB recipients by way of separate payments has consisted of the amount payable in respect of an adult dependant and qualified child dependants. I have recently made regulations which provide for a change in the method of determining the split in the case of a couple living together where separate payment arrangements apply. We have discussed these matters a number of times on the Estimates. Under the new provisions the amount payable to each spouse by way of separate payments will be half the appropriate marriage rate of UA/UB, that is, half the sum of the personal adult dependant rate. In addition, the spouse with care of any qualified child dependants will receive the full amount payable in respect of them. I trust these new arrangements meet the Deputy's concern.
I thank the Minister. I had hoped that with the changes he has made this would apply. Am I to take it he is now adding the adult rate and the dependant rate and dividing it in two?
Yes.
In reply to Question No. 10, will he agree to that if agreement is reached about dividing? It is important from the point of view of the woman who has the responsibility of the children that as much money as possible would go to her directly.
These are the arrangements we are now making in separate payment agreements and where separate payment arrangements are applied, it will depend on the circumstances, but we will have to see what the circumstances are in particular cases and whether they come under separate payment arrangements.
One supplementary——
I will call the Deputy again.
I note that no fewer than 23 out of the 37 questions put down today concern many of the anomalies in the social welfare code. Will the Minister agree that no amount of tinkering with the social welfare system will eliminate these anomalies? Will he agree further that the only way to eliminate this problem is by the introduction of a basic income scheme?
The Deputy is raising a separate matter now.
What the Minister has suggested will reduce the adult rate for the recipient——
It is halving the total; combining the two. The total remains the same.
The total of the two remains the same but the man's portion will reduce slightly if the payment is divided.
This relates to separate payments where one of the spouses is minding the children. Up to now in most cases it was the woman who was minding the children and she could get only the dependant allowance plus the child dependant allowances. She will now be able to get half the combined rate of the dependant and full rate plus the child dependant allowance. It will mean she will get an increased allowance. It is a benefit mainly for women.
I am disappointed, Sir, that you disallowed my supplementary. The Minister might like to volunteer an answer.
If the Deputy has a pertinent question to put in respect of Question No. 10 I would be glad to hear it.
With respect, I think it is pertinent.
The Deputy will be aware that we have a number of schemes of last resort. One of these is the supplementary welfare allowance scheme which provides a basic payment for all social welfare beneficiaries who may require such a payment. In recent times we have been taking people out of that scheme, regularising the payments and giving them a payment like the lone parent's allowance which now provides a basic payment for everyone in that situation. We are doing that right across the board; now very few people are long term dependants on supplementary welfare allowance, which is the basic bottom line payment.
Question No. 11. I want to make progress on another question.
