Proinsias De Rossa
Ceist:9 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach when he intends to bring forward proposals for the reform of the Oireachtas, which were promised in the Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Oireachtas Reform.
The reform of Dáil procedures is of course primarily a matter for the House as a whole. In this regard, the Government have been referring their reform proposals to the all-party working group appointed by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to examine and report on such proposals.
In the programme for Government it was indicated that there would be reform of the Oireachtas, that the committee system, the sub judice ruling and a range of other matters would be addressed. May I ask the Taoiseach if, as part of the reform, it is intended to appoint any further committees? I know there has been consultation in relation to the establishment of a foreign affairs committee. Perhaps the Taoiseach will take this opportunity to give an update to the House on progress in that regard. Does the Taoiseach think the voting procedure in this House needs to be reformed in view of the time it takes, particularly when there are a series of votes? Indeed, constant problems arise on the floor of the House in relation to priority questions and how they are dealt with. Has the Taoiseach any proposals in relation to those matters?
This matter is best pursued on the basis of the greatest possible degree of consensus between the parties and to that extent I would rather leave it at this stage to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to get on with the reforms they see as most urgent and most appropriate. On the question of voting procedures, I could be tendentious about that but I will refrain from being so. Improvements are made from time to time in our procedures here, but I am afraid I would have to be critical if the Deputy were to draw me out much further on that whole area. In regard to committees, I assure the Deputy that discussions and negotiations with regard to the foreign affairs committee are proceeding.
Will the Taoiseach agree that since the introduction of the televising of the Dáil this Chamber is now seen for what it really is, staid, outdated, not in touch with public opinion, incapable of debating urgent matters when they should be debated and totally staid in the manner in which we do our business? Would the Taoiseach not agree it is about time we all — I mean this sincerely — worked to make this place more relevant to the general public, particularly to the young people who must spend their time there bewildered at the activities that go on? Finally, would the Taoiseach seriously consider introducing Dáil sittings on Fridays so that Private Members' Bills can be taken, reports from committees can be debated openly and so that we can be brought up to date on current issues without continuous wrangling on the Order of Business seeking time to debate urgent matters?
One of the things I deplore more than anything else is the constant process of rows on the Order of Business every morning. We accepted a suggestion from Deputy Bruton with a view to trying to obviate that process. I do not agree with the Deputy; it is very easy to say what he said about any institution. This House by and large gets through its work as effectively as any other Parliament, and all the criticism the Deputy can level at this Parliament could be levelled at most other Parliaments. As I have said in my reply, I believe the way to process this whole matter is through the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Would the Taoiseach agree that one of the prime causes of frustration, annoyance and time wasting in this House is in relation to voting? There was a report some years ago on the introduction of electronic voting. If there was a consensus in the House in that regard would the Government be prepared to fund a system of electronic voting to reduce the present 20 minutes per vote which we waste on the floor of the House each day?
I do not want to venture any opinion on that. I have my own view on it, but it is better that these matters be discussed and debated and, hopefully, a consensus arrived at through the normal channels.
Will the Taoiseach agree that the impression given in the Programme for Government was that the Government would table their own proposals for Dáil reform but that that has not happened? Will the Taoiseach also agree that what has happened is that the Government have authorised the setting up of a sub-committee of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges which are going through an agenda of topics but that there have been no Government proposals? The Fine Gael Party are the only party which have tabled proposals in that committee for the reform of the Dáil. Will the Taoiseach agree that it would be useful, given that Fine Gael have tabled their proposals, if the Government were to table their proposals as well so that there would be a solid agenda on which the Committee in question could work?
I do not think that sort of point scoring and one-upmanship helps the process which I should like to see proceeding on an all party consensus basis.
Unfortunately, it is not proceeding.
It is very important not to debate the matter now. Many Deputies are offering. I will call Deputy Shatter and then I will hear a final question from Deputy Rabbitte.
Will the Taoiseach accept that the difficulty in proceeding on an all party basis derives from his own party——
No.
——and the anachronistic approach to Dáil reform taken by the Fianna Fáil Party has, in recent years, been the delay in implementing reforms?
That is typical.
Will the Taoiseach indicate whether the two Coalition parties in Government, the Progressive Democrats and Fianna Fáil, are in agreement as to the reforms required? Will the Taoiseach clarify whether the slowness in establishing a number of Dáil committees referred to in a statement by a member of the Progressive Democrats outside this House derives from a Government decision or from Fianna Fáil obduracy?
I am afraid it is that sort of partisan, mischievous comment which renders all work in this area difficult.
The Taoiseach is paralysed by inactivity.
It would be far better if the Deputy tried to have a co-operative, agreeable consensus approach to the matter instead of trying to score these simple little party points.
Will the Taoiseach agree——
The Taoiseach is satisfied as long as the co-operation is on his agenda.
He is listening to "Scrap Saturday".
Let us hear Deputy Rabbitte.
The Fine Gael Deputies are taking their television tutor too seriously.
(Interruptions.)
Will the Taoiseach agree that the inadequacy of provision for the ventilation of current matters, which apparently can be debated everywhere except in this House, is one of the bugbears in the system? Will he also agree that Deputy John Bruton's suggestion, which the Government took on board, has not worked and is, understandably, not being taken seriously by the Ministers?
The Government are always prepared, by means of special debate, answers at Question Time and by means of Private Notice Questions, to give the House and the public as much relevant up to date information on current matters as possible. We are always prepared to consider ways of doing that but there must be a balance in this matter. We have a legislative programme to get through and if we spend our time and days here responding to the latest newspaper controversy it would not be very productive either. With regard to the matter which the Deputy mentioned, I am afraid that whatever bad tricks the current ringmaster television tutor of the Fine Gael Party have, he learned them from The Workers' Party.
It is the best tribute to his effectiveness that the Taoiseach and the leader of the other parties are talking about him in this House. I intend to keep them talking about him.