It is proposed to take Nos. 11 and 12. It is also proposed, subject to the agreement of the House that (1) the proceedings on the Report and Final Stages of Nos. 11 and 12, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 2.30 p.m. and 4 p.m., respectively, by one question in each case which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only amendments set down by the member of the Government in charge of the Bill; (2) the Dáil at its rising today, shall adjourn until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 17 April 1991.
Order of Business.
In respect of item No. 1, are the proposals for dealing with items Nos. 11 and 12 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil adjourn until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 17 April agreed?
On the proposal that the Dáil adjourn until 10.30 a.m. on 17 April, let me say that we are closing a session which has not been spectacular in terms of legislation. The House needs more time to consider legislation. I suggest that the Dáil should reconvene on Tuesday, 9 April, to give us more time to consider legislation, particularly as we are still waiting for the Roads Authority Bill, the Environmental Protection Agency Bill has not been brought before this House and we are expecting legislation on local government reform. Sir, I ask that the Taoiseach reconvene the House on Tuesday, 9 April.
We have had a long and tough session since January, we are facing into an equally long and tough session until the summer recess, and I think this Easter break is very reasonable in all the circumstances. Without being in any way hypocritical about the matter, I must say I am looking forward to it and I am sure every Deputy in the House is too.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
I would be willing to accept this recess if the Government had established the committees they had promised, namely, the foreign affairs and crime committees, which would allow the House to do its work during the recess. In view of the fact that the Government have not established a proper committee system, which can process work more quickly, I believe the House has no option but to support Deputy Spring's proposition that the House resumes its activities earlier.
Question proposed: "That the date proposed to be deleted stand."
The Dáil divided: Tá, 64; Níl, 51.
Tá
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Brennan, Mattie.
- Brennan, Séamus.
- Browne, John (Wexford).
- Burke, Raphael P.
- Callely, Ivor.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Connolly, Ger.
- Coughlan, Mary Theresa.
- Cowen, Brian.
- Cullimore, Séamus.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Davern, Noel.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- Dennehy, John.
- Fahey, Frank.
- Fahey, Jackie.
- Flood, Chris.
- Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Haughey, Charles J.
- Hillery, Brian.
- Hilliard, Colm.
- Hyland, Liam.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Kelly, Laurence.
- Kenneally, Brendan.
- Kirk, Séamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Barrett, Michael.
- Brady, Gerard.
- Brady, Vincent.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Lyons, Denis.
- Martin, Micheál.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- McDaid, Jim.
- McEllistrim, Tom.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Nolan, M.J.
- O'Connell, John.
- O'Dea, Willie.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- O'Toole, Martin Joe.
- Power, Seán.
- Quill, Máirín.
- Roche, Dick.
- Smith, Michael.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Tunney, Jim.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Wallace, Mary.
- Walsh, Joe.
- Woods, Michael.
- Wyse, Pearse.
Níl
- Allen, Bernard.
- Belton, Louis J.
- Boylan, Andrew.
- Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
- Bruton, John.
- Byrne, Eric.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
- Creed, Michael.
- Currie, Austin.
- D'Arcy, Michael.
- Deasy, Austin.
- Doyle, Joe.
- Dukes, Alan.
- Durkan, Bernard.
- Farrelly, John V.
- Fennell, Nuala.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Foxe, Tom.
- Gilmore, Eamon.
- Gregory, Tony.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- Lowry, Michael.
- McCormack, Pádraic.
- McGahon, Brendan.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- Mac Giolla, Tomás.
- McGrath, Paul.
- Mitchell, Gay.
- Moynihan, Michael.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Noonan, Michael. (Limerick East).
- O'Brien, Fergus.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Sullivan, Gerry.
- Owen, Nora.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Rabbitte, Pat.
- Ryan, Seán.
- Sheehan, Patrick J.
- Sherlock, Joe.
- Spring, Dick.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Timmins, Godfrey.
- Yates, Ivan.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies V. Brady and Clohessy; Níl, Deputies Howlin and Flanagan.
Question declared carried.
May I ask the Taoiseach if the Government will provide time today for the Minister for Finance to make a statement on the consequences of the now admitted Government's illegal act in continuing to confiscate goods under the 48 hour rule, after that rule had been struck down as illegal in the European Court, especially in view of the fact that the Government are responsible for enforcing the law and should not be seen to be breaking it?
The matter to which the Deputy refers is hardly related to the Order of Business.
Sir, on a point of order, would the House not agree that this House is responsible for making the law and the Government are responsible for respecting and enforcing it and that if the Government are breaking the law that brings this House and its activities into disrepute?
There are procedures for dealing with such matters, let us conform to them.
May I seek some clarification from the Taoiseach and, perhaps, from the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications? Over the last number of weeks this House has been informed that the Minister has requested NESC to report to him in relation to the threatened closure of 550 rural sub-post offices and the loss of 1,500 jobs. We are now informed publicly that NESC will not carry out this report. I would ask the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications if he does not feel it is incumbent on him to come into this House and clarify the situation.
As late as Wednesday the Minister informed the House that NESC had been requested to carry out this report. It is now public knowledge that NESC will not, in fact, carry out this report. I would ask the Taoiseach——
I allowed Deputy Spring some latitude in order that he might develop a point which I thought might be relevant to the Order of Business, but clearly it is not.
This is very relevant to this country and also to the 1,500 people who will lose their jobs.
That may be so.
I would ask the Taoiseach to allow his Minister an opportunity to correct the record of this House and to do so before 4 p.m. this afternoon.
A Cheann Comhairle——
Will the Taoiseach give——
The Chair will not compel any Member of this House to speak.
——the Minister an opportunity to apologise for deliberately misleading this House by being economical with the truth and to defer making a decision until after the local government elections?
Deputy Currie, a Member of this House should not state that another Member deliberately misled the House.
There is no other way of doing it.
(Interruptions.)
It is not in order and all my predecessors have said so.
I am merely seeking that the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications should have the opportunity to come into this House before we adjourn this afternoon to clarify the situation.
Deputy Spring has made his point.
That is a very reasonable request.
In the light of the plans to bring before the House the bus competition Bill, can the Taoiseach or the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications use their good offices, in the interests of the travelling public, to attempt to unravel the chaotic industrial relations prevailing in CIE at present where there are three different disputes running simultaneously? It is imperative that the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications discuss the situation with his colleague, the Minister for Labour, to unravel the very complex difficulties——
Please, Deputy Byrne, I thought the Deputy was raising something relevant.
——in the context of a planned bus competition Bill coming before this House.
Deputy Farrelly is offering.
May I ask the Taoiseach if the Government have any intention of introducing legislation to privatise the driver testing section of the Department of the Environment, taking into consideration that there are 62,000 applicants on the waiting list? All those applicants who have provisional driving licences are paying between £300 and £500 extra——
Deputy Farrelly, a question would clarify the matter. I am calling Deputy Ryan.
May I ask the Taoiseach if he would introduce legislation on this matter?
I take it there is no legislation promised in this area.
May I ask the Taoiseach when the Government propose to bring before this House the promised mental health legislation?
Is this promised legislation?
It is indeed.
I am not sure that any specific legislation has been promised but it will not be before the summer recess.
Will there be a White Paper on the matter?
I understand that the order was made yesterday for the Second Stage of the Finance Bill. May I ask the Taoiseach when that document will be circulated to Members?
On 17 April.
In view of the fact that the order has been made, is it not possible that it could be circulated sooner to facilitate a more enlightened debate?
I am quite certain the debate will be very enlightened.
That is the extent of the U-turns?
If it can be brought forward before that date I will try to ensure that—but, my information is that it will not be ready before 17 April.
(Limerick East): May I ask the Taoiseach if the Finance Bill will make provision for a rebate of the VAT deducted illegally by the Government by the misapplication of the 48 hour rule? Does the Taoiseach intend——
We should await the debate on the Bill. It is not in order now.
(Limerick East):—— to bring in a Supplementary Estimate to make provision for the rebate of VAT which was deducted illegally by the Government's misapplication of the 48 hour rule?
I have already ruled on that matter.
Would you please investigate for me the fact that access to this House is being denied to Members at present by a petty rule and that Members' duties are being impeded by our being classified as security risks at one of the back gates of this House?
That is entirely appropriate.
Are you afraid there would be some leaked documents?
I would have much preferred had the Deputy brought this matter to my notice. Had he done so I would now be in a position to give him a considered reply.
I did not raise the matter because——
Nevertheless, I shall have the matter investigated. There are too many Deputies offering. I am going on to the Order of Business soon.
May I ask the Taoiseach when the Minister for the Environment will announce the results of a nationwide survey on water quality? I understand it is in the Department but it appears he is afraid to make it public because of the bad results.
That matter clearly does not arise now. I am calling Deputy McCormack.
It is very difficult to see the Minister for the Environment these days.
He is in a pothole.
Deputy McCormack, I shall not call you a third time.
May I ask the Taoiseach when the Committee Stage of the Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, 1990, will be continued? Will we have to go through another tourist season without this matter being resolved?
It will be taken next session.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Howlin.
Yesterday on the Order of Business the Taoiseach indicated that he was hopeful the National Roads Authority Bill would be circulated before the Easter recess. Is the Taoiseach still hopeful that we will have sight of the Bill before 4 o'clock this afternoon or is that hope gone?
It has got lost down a pothole.
I am afraid it is receding slightly into the distance. There is still a chance that it will be out before Easter.
There is no truth in the rumour that lifeguards are now minding the potholes.
May I ask the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications if the Government have decided to reject proposals put forward by Telecom Éireann in respect of charges for local calls? It is important in the context——
The Deputy will have to pursue this matter in the normal way. Deputy Emmet Stagg.
It is important that these proposals are clarified for the benefit of people——
Sorry, Deputy Hogan, not now. There are other ways and means of raising this matter.
This matter should be clarified——
Deputy Hogan will now desist. The Chair will facilitate him——
The Government are misleading the public by postponing their decision until after the local elections. They should now come clean——
I must ask you, Deputy, to resume your seat. Deputy Emmet Stagg.
The Minister should clarify the position for the general public——
Deputy Hogan, resume your seat or leave the House.
The public——
I am sorry that the Deputy should behave in this fashion. The Deputy will now leave the House or else resume his seat.
I will leave the House.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Hogan withdrew from the Chamber.
May I ask the Minister for Education when a decision will be made on the renewal of grants to youth organisations? These grants are due for renewal on 7 April and they will go out of existence if they are not renewed.
The Deputy should raise that in another way. Deputy Quinn.
I am sure you will agree that it is a very important and urgent matter.
I am going on to the business ordered shortly. I have already called Deputy Quinn.
The Minister should indicate to the House when these grants will be renewed.
Deputy Quinn.
In view of the announcement in relation to the sale of milk by a major retail unit today and its implications for the retail trade generally, can the Taoiseach give any indication when the competition Bill will be brought before this House?
That is questioned virtually every day.
But we have not got an answer.
(Limerick East): Has the Taoiseach any control over that Minister?
As I said yesterday, the Bill is very well advanced and is imminent any day now.
It has been imminent for the past six months.
May I ask the Taoiseach when he expects the report on the insurance industry, which is promised, to be referred to the Government?
A question would elicit that information. Deputy John Bruton has been offering and I will call Deputy Gay Mitchell for a final question.
A Deputy
A Cheann Comhairle——
I am going on to the business ordered when I hear Deputy Gay Mitchell.
May I ask the Taoiseach when it is proposed to take item No. 8 on today's Order Paper in the name of his Minister of State?
This is not strictly in order but as the Deputy knows I have promised to try to get these committees into being as soon as possible.
When will the Taoiseach make a definitive response to the letter I wrote to him about these matters?
He wants a penpal.
This is a serious matter.
It has been raised here so many times——
When is it proposed to establish a foreign affairs committee and a crime committee? I have written to the Taoiseach outlining my views on this matter but he has not responded to my letter. He has suggested that the matter should be dealt with by the Whips but he has not given his Whip any instructions in the matter. There is a total stalemate.
The stalemate in regard to the crime committee was brought about by the Deputy's party who dishonoured an agreement they made in regard to the Chair. This is why we do not have a crime committee at this stage.
Deputy Gay Mitchell.
That is simply not true——
Deputy Bruton, this may not lead to argument or disorder.
——and I ask you, Sir, to ask the Taoiseach to withdraw that statement.
(Interruptions.)
On a point of order, considering your great concern for order on this side of the House, may I ask you to ask the Taoiseach to withdraw that statement?
The Deputy may not attribute any element of partisanship to this Chairman.
(Interruptions.)
May I ask you to demonstrate that by asking the Taoiseach to withdraw his statement?
I will demonstrate that in my own fashion and I will not be dictated to, Deputy.
The Taoiseach has made an incorrect statement in regard to my party and I ask that he withdraw it.
I have no knowledge——
It is true. Ask Deputy Dukes, he knows all about it.
(Interruptions.)
They have not honoured their agreements.
Deputy Gay Mitchell.
May I ask the Taoiseach if he will bring forward the promised legislation on the updating of the powers of the Comptroller and Auditor General during the next session since this matter is now becoming urgent?
We will make a special effort to do this. The Bill is at drafting stage at the moment.
A Cheann Comhairle——
I am now proceeding to deal with the Social Welfare Bill, 1991, Report Stage.