Vol. 408 No. 2
16 Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Education if she will make a statement on a report (details supplied) that she wished to see assessment of pupils introduced as part of the junior certificate programme and that written examinations alone at this level were damaging to the potential growth of young people.
In an address to the Conference of the Teachers' Union of Ireland, where I was received very enthusiastically, both beforehand and afterwards, I dealt generally with assessment for the junior certificate. I referred to the fact that relying on a written paper only means that an assessment is arrived at by reference to a pupil's performance over two or three hours on a particular day. It appears to me that, depending on the result, such a procedure in the case of young students could affect their future potential. I believe that this view is generally shared. I also said the important issue was to bring out the best in the young people under our care.
I went on to point out that the whole question was being examined by a committee under the chairmanship of Dr. Tom Murphy, present chairman of the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment. Definitive decisions on assessment must await consideration of that committee's report which I expect to have by the end of this year.
Why does the Minister hold this view? Is she commencing the junior certificate with no input of assessment? Will she not accept that it was her change of heart on assessment that has led to the delay in the issue of sample papers for the new junior certificate? I am sure she will agree that the in-service courses on the junior certificate to date have been generally unsatisfactory because of the non-availability of sample papers. Can she indicate today when sample papers will be available?
That is a load of questions but I will go through them. In regard to the last one, there were sample questions for the in-service days. I accept that they were not sample papers, they were sample questions. I accept also that there was a degree of dissatisfaction, and I expressed it myself, with that period of in-service I refered to last term. Sample papers and a programme of in-service are currently being worked out between the various interested parties under the aegis of the entity and will be available for September.
The Deputy asked if it was not my change of heart which brought about the delay in the introduction of assessment. Deputy Deenihan and I know quite well that in the educational world, particularly in education terms, if a consensus is arrived at that is the best way to go about one's business. It must be painstaking and it often seems slow and laborious but it is not really so. I would have wished I could have had a percentage of assessment introduced in the first junior certificate to be sat for in June 1992. Given the time available and the various views legitimately held by the various interests it was not possible to do so, but I hope that, under the wise guidance of the chairman and the interested bodies, a consensus conclusion will be arrived at. Finally, I remain committed to a degree of assessment in subject materials for junior certificate level. I am not so overwrought about when it comes in but I am very keen that it does come in and will be in place and remain to be evaluated and monitored and worked to for all children in future.
Very briefly——
I want to bring in Deputy Jim Higgins also.
If the TUI and the ASTI fail to agree on assessment will the Minister intervene personally and directly on the matter and impose the form of assessment she wants? It is likely that they will disagree.
Let the Deputy not be such a doleful character. I am sure they have a common view now on all matters. I hope this is one issue on which they will agree. Sometimes one is asked to intervene and sometimes to take one's finger out of the pie and often it is a wonder one knows what way to turn one's head. I remain hopeful that in the interests of the young students both the post-primary teachers' unions will come to a measure and degree of consensus on the issue.
I hope Deputy Higgins will be brief. I would like to deal with Deputy John Browne's question and I seek the permission of the House to do so.
Of course the Minister realises that when talking to the TUI about assessment she was preaching to the converted. Did she not promise this House last November that 25 per cent of the marks would go for assessment? Now that has gone by the board. Did she not promise also that oral and aural skills would be tested? That has gone by the board, too.
No.
Did the Minister not promise that examination papers would be made available? We still have not got them. Did she not promise there would be in-service courses? These cannot be made available now before the summer. Does she not agree that children this time next year will be sitting for the first time for their junior certificate and neither teachers nor students have a clue as to where they are going at this point?
I dispute that strongly. What the Deputy has said about teachers is shameful. Teachers are the formulators of the in-service courses. They are on each of the course committees. They are on each of the in-service committees. I and they agree that the last round-up was not satisfactory but at their special request and at my instigation they are on the committees themselves at the devising of the courses. What the Deputy said is incorrect.
Let me go back to what the Deputy said and turn it on its head. He said promises were made of the introduction of the 25 per cent and of this, that and the other. He got his answer to that in the newspapers. You cannot in any manner of educational provision simply ride rough-shod over what has been established practice. You push out the boat as far as it can go. You float the idea of assessment, which I did. Up to then nobody had put it forward.
Fine Gael had.
Deputy John Bruton wanted assessment overnight but he wanted everything overnight.
Then I saw what would be feasible and practicable and what could be brought around by way of proper consensus. We do not always get everything we want in life. If I had my way I would have had the 25 per cent in place in 1992. I realised it was not possible without major disruption. Who wants major disruption? Parents and pupils do not want it. They want everything to come about in a civilised fashion and I hope that will happen. I do not share Deputy Deenihan's forebodings about friction between the two unions.
I did not say friction. I said disagreement.
Disagreement means friction. I do not share the Deputy's foreboding about the junior certificate, bearing in mind the doubling of teacher participation on the board. They are coming to see me about the course committees. I have immediately and directly involved the teachers in all this. In any educational development, particularly one involving curricular change, things will not work to a pattern. It takes a little time and a lot of trouble.
I was hoping the House might agree to take Question No. 17 to which Deputy Browne is anxiously awaiting a reply.
