Jim O'Keeffe
Ceist:9 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Justice his views on whether towns and villages in rural areas have become targets for city criminals; and the plans he has, if any, to cope with this alarming trend.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Rural Crime.
I am aware, from reports which I have received from the Garda authorities, that there has been a slight increase in the level of recorded crime in some rural areas over the past year or so. While it could not be assumed that city based criminals are to blame in all instances, the Garda authorities report that these criminals have tended to commit more crimes in towns and villages on the periphery of large urban areas. There is nothing new in the fact that city based criminals behave in this way and, while not wishing in any way to minimise the problem, I think it worth making the point that the increase is mainly attributable to a rise in the number of minor larcenies committed.
The Garda authorities have assured me that the situation is being monitored by them and that divisional officers have recently prepared a programme of measures designed to address the problem. It would not be appropriate for me, obviously, to disclose the details of these measures but I can say that they include the use of additional patrols and special check points. In addition, the gardaí are continuing to encourage and promote community involvement in crime prevention activities through the community alert and neighbourhood watch schemes. There are about 1,046 neighbourhood watch schemes now in operation covering 202,175 households; and community alert schemes are in place in 245 locations. There is no greater aid to effective policing than community alertness, co-operation with the gardaí and willingness to inform the gardaí when suspicious activities are observed.
With regard to rural policing arrangements generally, we are currently examining comprehensive proposals aimed at securing an enhanced service to the public from the Garda Síochána in the areas affected. These proposals do not involve the closure of any Garda station or any reduction in Garda numbers attached to stations which might benefit from the scheme. We intend to make decisions in relation to all aspects of the rural policing reform proposals in the very near future.
Quite apart from general proposals for rural policing, we are assured that Garda resources will continue to be deployed to best advantage and that the assignment of additional gardaí to meet the special requirements of any particular area will be arranged as needs dictate and in keeping with the best interest of the community in general.
Am I correct that there is no intention to close any rural Garda stations, particularly after the local elections? What provisions is the Minister making regarding the manning of rural Garda stations to deal with the growth of rural crime?
The Minister for Justice has made it quite clear — and I confirm it now — that there are no plans to close, downgrade or reduce the services provided by any rural Garda stations. That is absolute. The Minister for Justice has already announced publicly that Garda management, in consultation with officials of our Department and with the Garda representative associations, are engaged in a review of current policing systems to see whether they fully meet the needs of the public or whether by reorganisation or other means they can be made more efficient, modern and more responsive to community needs. No decisions have yet been taken on foot of the review. We are acutely conscious of the advantages which accure to both the public and the Garda Síochána from the close relationship which has traditionally existed between them and we are determined that if any changes are introduced they will not in any way interfere with this special community relationship.
Is it not a fact that Garda management have submitted plans to the Minister and that discussions and consultations have taken place between the Garda, senior civil servants and the Minister for Justice in relation to the bringing into being of plans which will effectively downgrade and reduce the hours of opening of many Garda stations in 11 specific areas? Is it not a fact that it is intended to close rural Garda stations for 163 hours per week, reopening for five hours only to the general public? Is it not a fact that this is to take place in the third week of July? I ask for a detailed and comprehensive reply because of the seriousness of the matter and the concern and alarm being felt by large numbers of people throughout rural Ireland.
I do not accept what Deputy Enright says. We are discussing with the management of the Garda Síochána the whole situation, particularly community policing. The purpose of community policing is to provide 24 hour cover for the entire community, to make sure that gardaí are as mobile as possible and can get to the scene of the crime very quickly. Some changes will have to be made but Deputy Enright will accept that a number of Garda stations around the country seem to have been permanently closed for a number of years. The "green man" system has never really worked. All this is being examined. There is a new recruitment campaign to provide proper community 24 hour cover for the people. of the country and we are totaly committed to that.
A Cheann Comhairle, you were good enough last night to allow me raise on the Adjournment a particular problem that arose in my constituency. Since it is a general problem and there is an acceptance by the Minister that crime is being exported from this country and city to the counties bounding Dublin, will the Minister again review the green man system which is really useless in a town like Carnew which has two divisions beside it and can get gardaí from either place at certain times in the week? Will the Minister also recognise the mobility of criminals which is sometimes even better than that of the gardaí and the increasing crime in the countries borderng Dublin, and will he ensure that in the summer months and in future we will see more evidence of Garda activity in and throughout these counties?
I accept that what occurred in Brittas Bay at the weekend was very serious. Deputy Kavanagh would agree that the Garda were quickly on the scene to deal with a group of people who went there from the capital city for the day where, apart from drink, there were other problems that compounded the situation.
We are committed to community policing and to making the Garda absolutely mobile so that they can respond to any situation within minutes.
How does the Minister reconcile community policing with the concept of the green man? Will the Minister accept that the green man is a brother of the green box which has replaced the rural post office throughout the country? It is no substitute for a Garda presence on the ground. Would the Minister confirm that the rationalisation programme that is not being put forward by the Department of Justice along the lines of that which has been in existence in Thomastown, County Kilkenny and in County Mayo since the mid-eighties, has been a failure and that there is little point expanding that service to other parts of rural Ireland? Would he agree that what we are seeing is a rationalisation programme which will not come into effect until after 27 June, that it is, in effect, a dressed up cutback that will close down many rural Garda stations? Will the Minister cast his eye over Question No. 105 which is related to what we are dealing with now, and confirm that Garda sergeants are being appointed in rural Ireland? I understand they are not.
We are dealing with Question No. 9. Deputy McCartan and Deputy Jim Higgins are also anxious to get in. Let us not get bogged down with this. There are a lot of other questions to be dealt with.
Neither I nor the Minister has any responsibility for either the green man or the green box. I am certainly not in favour of either. I want to assure Deputy Flanagan that we do not propose to close down or downgrade rural Garda stations. We are appointing sergeants in rural Ireland and we are creating an option for people to operate in this new community policing system. The Minister for Justice and the Department are absolutely committed to this and I am confident that it will work, and work well.
On the problem of mobile criminal gangs moving from major urban areas in Dublin, should the Minister and the commissioner not be considering the re-establishment of mobilised specialist units of the Garda Síochána, such as the special task force that was disbanded some time ago, to deal with the mobile criminals? Would the Minister agree that the best way of effectively dealing with these people is not through this concept of community policing but by equipping the garda to pursue effectively? Would the Minister also agree that the restoration of the walkie-talkie as a simple device for mobile patrols is an important issue in this area so that gardaí on mobile patrol can keep in contact with one another to effectively pursue the criminal who is now mobile and moving into rural areas?
We were not responsible for the disbanding of the special task force. In answer to a question of the Adjournment last night and to an earlier question here I have outlined the strategy of the Garda Síochána that various specialist units are being put together to deal with particular problems in particular areas. I am confident that the necessary measures will be put in place to reduce the level of crime and the opportunity for crime in the interests of the community.
Would the Minister of State not agree that the experiments in Counties Mayo and Kilkenny are not working that all the patrol cars, all the radio links, all the modern communications in the world have proven to be no adequate substitute for the village policeman? Will he also agree that there is something totally illogical with the rostering of policing in a town like Ballyhaunis where one has to ring Swinford for 12 hours during the day?
I spoke earlier about the concept of community policing. We are totally committed to this concept which encompasses the man on the beat, the local man in the local Garda station, 24 hour cover, mobile resources and backup cover. The green man system has not been a success and the Garda Commissioner is taking appropriate action to ensure that adequate measures are put in place to maximise the cover available to the people through the community Garda system.
I think the House would agree we have dwelt inordinately long on Question No. 9 and Deputies are still offering. Nine questions is all we have disposed of up to now. This is not good enough. I am calling Deputy Enda Kenny for a final question.
I will be brief.
I have called Deputy Enda Kenny.
If the Minister is personally opposed to the green man system, is he prepared to recommend to the Garda Commissioner that this system should be abolished?
If Deputy Kenny had been in here earlier he would have heard me say that the whole situation is being reviewed by the Garda Commissioner and the Department of Justice and we are putting in position alternative community policing to ensure that there is adequate protection for the community and a proper deterrent against crime.
I promise to be brief. The Minister has admitted that the green man system is a failure. There is a serious crime problem in Dublin, but would the Minister agree that there has been a 6 per cent increase in indictable crime outside Dublin in rural Ireland? When will the official figures for 1990 showing this 6 per cent rise in indictable crime in rural Ireland be produced?
I do not have that information but I would accept that there has been some increase in crime in rural areas. The whole situation is under review by the Garda Commissioner and against that review the position will be changed as a result of the commitment we have to community policing to take account of the problems that people in both rural and urban Ireland have in the interests of all our community.
Have the figures for 1990 been supplied to the Department by the Garda Commissioner? Why are they not being published? Finally, how can the Minister have a commitment to community policing when there are just not enough Garda Síochána?
The figures for 1990 are not yet available to me. As soon as they are available——
Have they been supplied to the Department?
I do not have them.
Have they been made available to the Department?
I gave some figures earlier. I gave provisional figures for 1990. The final figures for 1991 are not yet available.
They will be published after the local elections.
(Interruptions.)
This Government will make all the information available irrespective of what elections take place.
Progress at questions today has been particularly sluggish.