Vol. 413 No. 5
5 Mr. S. Barrett asked the Minister for Justice if there is a connection between the growing number of community groups being formed to patrol and protect their communities and the limited opening hours of many of our rural Garda stations; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
40 Mr. G. O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Justice if he will outline his views on the establishment of vigilante groups; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Priority Question No. 5 and Question No. 40 together.
As Minister for Justice, I welcome and indeed encourage active support from all citizens for the Garda Síochána in the fight against crime. Such support is the essence of progressive policing measures like community policing and of successful community initiatives in crime prevention such as Neighbourhood Watch and Community Alert which promote and channel public support for the Garda Síochána in a lawful manner with due regard for the rights of all citizens.
Self-help crime prevention measures of this kind, which are undertaken in co-operation with the Garda and within the law, are quite a different matter from vigilanteism. My position in relation to vigilante-type groups is already well known. Self-appointed groups of would-be enforcers of the law, who in reality undermine the rule of law, have no place in a democratic society. The Garda Síochána is the only legally constituted police force in this State and any attempt by individuals or groups to take the law into their own hands will not be tolerated.
We are all too well aware of the dangers inherent in vigilante-type activities and I am sure that Deputies on all sides of this House will strongly disapprove of such activities and be anxious to discourage anybody who might be so misguided as to contemplate engaging in them. For that reason it is essential that we all adhere to strict accuracy and maintain a sense of proportion in what we say about policing matters and do not inadvertently undermine public confidence in the Garda Síochána.
It is simply untrue to assert that in rural areas growing numbers of civilian groups are being formed to patrol and protect their communities. I am aware, as are the Garda authorities, that some people came together recently in the Bunclody area to keep an eye on premises and so on at night following an increase in burglaries in the town. However, there was no question of those concerned acting as vigilantes or taking on anything in the nature of a law-enforcement role. They were all known to the Garda as responsible, well-intentioned members of the community who simply decided to keep a close watch on things at a time when they were worried about burglaries and who decided also to keep the Garda informed of what they had observed. The situation which gave rise to their concern has, I am glad to say, been handled in the meantime by resolute and effective Garda endeavour.
It would be quite misplaced to seek to make any connection between the activities of the Bunclody group and the opening hours of rural Garda stations. There has been no reduction in the opening hours of Bunclody station and my information is that an extension of opening hours there would only serve to reduce the level of outdoor Garda patrolling in the area. I fail to understand how it can be seriously suggested that a member of the Garda Síochána can more effectively discharge his role of preventing and detecting crime by sitting behind a desk in a Garda station for longer than is necessary to provide an office service to the public than by being out on active patrolling and other outdoor operational duties.
Would the Minister not agree that whether we like it or not people feel safer when there is a Garda station in their town and a Garda presence on the street? The Bunclody group, whom I did not refer to solely in my question, have made it clear in correspondence that they established this patrol group because of the lack of Garda presence on the streets of Bunclody. Would the Minister not agree that if he persists in standing over a reduction in Garda numbers of 900 over the past five years there is a danger that this trend will continue? Finally, would he agree that the events on the outskirts of Dublin over the past number of days will give rise to a great deal of alarm? The fire brigade action now being taken of redeploying gardaí to other stations in Dublin to satisfy a need at a particular time will lead to outbreaks of violence in other areas, with the result that gardaí will have to be moved from one place to another. This all leads back to the point——
This question is very long——
——that there are not enough gardaí on our streets.
——especially having regard to the time constraints.
In relation to the overall number of gardaí, the Government are now engaged in their second major recruitment programme under which 13,500 young people applied for the positions advertised and 1,000 have been recruited. The written tests have been completed and the interview process is now under way. At present a completion programme is under way at the training college in Templemore for those who were recruited initially.
It would be misleading if I were to agree with what the Deputy suggested in relation to Bunclody. My information is that many people in the Bunclody area are of the view that there has been enough misleading comment about their situation. To put matters into perspective in regard to Bunclody, 48 indictable crimes were reported to the end of October this year and 22 of these have already been detected. Most of these crimes were either burglaries or larcenies, with a high proportion of them attributable to one young person who is now the subject of a court order. I am not suggesting that 48 crimes in what was previously a relatively tranquil area is not a matter for concern. It is a matter for concern, but appropriate measures have been taken by the Garda and the situation is now in hands. Obviously, I cannot give details of the further measures being taken.
As regards the situation in west Dublin, this is not a fire brigade operation. The Garda have been very active in that area. I visited Killinarden and Ronanstown as far back as last May. A number of initiatives and preventative action were taken at that time with the co-operation of the local communities, local schools and local business communities. Throughout the summer various projects were undertaken.
Various projects are underway in the Cherry Orchard area. I can tell the Deputy — it may come up later in a Special Notice Question, if it has been allowed — that in some suburban estates, not just within Dublin, but throughout the country particular problems have arisen.
I have a meeting this evening with the Garda Commissioner, his two deputies and the full assistant commissioner ranks of the Force. The Government have decided to nominate an assistant secretary in the Department of Health, Social Welfare, Labour, the Environment and Justice to see how we can have a comprehensive response because throwing police at the problem will not solve it. The problems in some of these areas go far deeper than just policing.
In Ronanstown there are about 4,500 houses with a population of about 24,000, some of the finest people one could wish to meet, but there is a problem in the area and it needs a comprehensive approach and that comprehensive approach, which is already under way, is being further expanded by actions taken by myself on behalf of the Government.
Can we come to Question No. 6?
I would like to make one final point.
It must be very brief. An inordinate amount of time has been spent on this question and there are four questions remaining.
The Minister has taken about six minutes of the time. I should like to make this point, in case anybody is being fooled: the Garda recruits will barely cover the numbers who will retire in the same period. The facts are that there were 11,400 gardaí in 1986 and there are 10,500 today.
Question No. 6 please.
The Deputy will also be aware that, in relation to Garda numbers, there has been a major programme of replacing gardaí by civilian staff and a major programme of replacing them on traffic duty with traffic wardens, etc., so that the numbers are not comparable.
