Eric J. Byrne
Ceist:14 Mr. Byrne asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will outline (1) the purpose of his recent visit to South Africa; (2) the organisations he met there; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions Oral Answers. - Ministerial Visit to South Africa.
Michael D. Higgins
Ceist:35 Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if he will make a statement on his recent trip to South Africa.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 14 and 35 together.
I led a business mission to South Africa from 24-30 November 1991. The purpose of the visit was to promote the development of trade and investment links between Ireland and South Africa. The mission included representatives from a number of semi-State bodies and private companies. During the mission, I accompanied a number of the participants in their meetings with private sector companies. I also met with IDA and ABT target companies and organisations.
I discussed ways of increasing and expanding bilateral economic relations and exchanged views on general trade issues such as the European Community Internal Market and GATT with Dr. Marais, the Minister for Trade and Industry and with his Deputy Minister, Mr. Graaff.
In addition, I had meetings with the State President, Mr. F.W. De Klerk, as well as the Foreign Minister, Mr. R. F. Botha. The President briefed me on the current economic and political situation in South Africa and in particular on the start of the multi-party talks, which had begun before I left. I was able to brief the President on the objectives of my mission. Trade and investment possibilities between our two countries were raised as well as significant European Community developments. We noted that the Community was taking steps to remove all trade related restrictions on South Africa and I informed him that Ireland had removed the ban on the import of fruit and vegetables from South Africa.
I was also very pleased to have had the opportunity to meet with Mr. Walter Sisulu, Deputy President of the African National Congress, as well as representatives of the Inkatha Freedom Party. This gave me the opportunity to hear the fullest range of views on the political and economic prospects for South Africa. In my talks with the leaders of the black community, I offered training in Ireland in Government administration for six graduates.
As part of my schedule, I also had the opportunity of seeing the conditions in the townships of Mamalodi near Pretoria and Soweto near Johannesburg. In Soweto, I visited a convent and school run by the Irish Mercy Sisters and saw the very great contribution they are making there in difficult conditions.
The visit to South Africa enabled me to see at first hand the tremendous changes which have been initiated there and the prospects which exist for stronger economic relations between both countries. Overall, I came away convinced that there are some worthwhile opportunities for developing our trade and business links, over time. Specifically, in the investment area, I feel that the best hope of attracting South African investment lies in the financial service sector — especially insurance and banking — while on the trade side I would see our immediate prospects to be in the consultancy and technical assistance areas.
I welcome the fact that the Minister had a wide range of meetings while in South Africa and that he met specifically with the ANC. I would ask him to comment on the criticism of his visit by the Irish anti-apartheid movement to the effect that they considered it premature, especially in the signal it may give to the Pretoria Government. Does the Minister accept that there is a necessity to balance the interests of our country in terms of trade with any action that could be taken to impede progress towards democracy in South Africa? Finally, may I ask him if the provision of training facilities for six graduates — I do not know whether these six places will be reserved in Carysfort — amounts to the full extent of our commitment to training arising from the visit or does the Minister envisage a greater commitment in the year ahead?
The offer of training of six graduates in public administration was a gratuituous offer on the part of the Irish Government, but of course the Deputy will be aware that the Government make available aid of different kinds to people in different parts of South Africa and places close to South Africa. Training will form an important part of our contact with South Africa, particularly in the immediate future, and that is borne out by the fact that several of the State bodies and private companies who accompanied me had in mind training programmes of one kind or the other. These would be usually provided on a commercial basis but in the circumstances they will probably be paid for not necessarily by the recipients of the training but by bodies such as the European Community, the World Bank, the IMF and others.
As I understand it the Minister was accompanied on this trip to South Africa by representatives of the IDA and An Bord Tráchtála. Does he see the possibility of opening permanent offices in South Africa — I understand that neither organisation has an office on the Continent of Africa — given the world changes that are taking place, the elimination of competition between the east and west for trade in Africa and the possibilities for exports and for investment in Europe from these countries? Would the Minister consider South Africa as a suitable location for these offices?
I would indeed, because South Africa is of enormous importance not just in its potential market, which is very big, but also because it is economically and otherwise by far the most advanced country on the Continent of Africa. It is used as a base in the planning of infrastructural and other developments of many of the countries on the African Continent, particularly those south of the Equator. I believe that our interests in time would be served by having a trade office in Johannesburg. I have discussed this matter with An Bord Tráchtála and their view is that they do not wish to open an office there within the next six or nine months but they are taking steps immediately to appoint a representative there and they will review the position as trade develops. At present trade is not at a high level and our exports to South Africa are inhibited by the very high level of tariffs which exist in the South African market. It was indicated to me by members of the Government and other people that it can be expected that those tariffs will be greatly reduced in the near future.
Are they members of GATT?
They are what you might call pavilion members. They joined initially but were unable to subscribe to a number of the rounds because they were a very protectionist economy and as a result they are currently non-practising members. However, they hope to be fully back in the fold soon.
I can understand the Minister's enthusiasm for the trade possibilities that such a mission would open up not only in South Africa itself but on the African Continent. However, would the Minister not agree that we ought to make haste slowly and that while all the conditions laid down by the United Nations for negotiations have not been observed there is a necessity to balance that political consideration against our vested interest as a trading nation.
I am fully aware of that and that is why my visit there in November of this year was the first ever official visit by an Irish Minister — Irish Ministers visited South Africa in their EC capacity but not in their Irish capacity during our Presidency of the EC. We have hastened slowly and the question may well arise as to whether we may have hastened a little too slowly because I found that every European country had been there ahead of me.
The British, Belgians, Portuguese and other countries were there ahead of the Minister. We were about the seventh country out of 12 to go there.
We are well back in the queue and we have made no untoward haste in this matter.