Vol. 417 No. 9
13 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Minister for Education if it is his Department's policy to consult with third level colleges before the introduction of new courses for the leaving certificate in order to ascertain the status of the new courses and their acceptability from the point of view of college entry; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
The National Council for Curriculum and Assessment are the body charged with advising my Department in regard to the curriculum generally and to the syllabus content of individual subjects.
In order to enable them to carry out this function, the council have established syllabus committees as appropriate for the different subjects. Membership of these committees provides representation for school managerial authorities, teacher unions, subject associations, the Committee of Heads of Irish Universities, the National Council for Educational Awards and the Department.
It is precisely because of the implications which leaving certificate syllabuses have for third level education that representation is accorded on the syllabus committees to the representatives of the universities and of the National Council for Educational Awards. This mechanism provides for full consultation with third level interests in regard to any changes in curricula or syllabuses at post-primary senior cycle level.
May I draw the Minister's attention to the alternative leaving certificate ordinary mathematics course, a course drawn up on the specific instructions of his predecessor, by a mathematics course committee established by his Department, the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, who issued a circular letter to schools advising them that the course would be of a high standard. Yet 2,500 students now discover that 200 of the 217 courses run by the RTC and Dublin Institute of Technology colleges will not be accepted. Would the Minister not agree that it boils down to a wrangle between people at various mathematical levels with regard to the status to be accorded the course, which matter should be rectified straightaway?
I understand the difficulty. However, I should say that the alternative mathematics paper is accepted as satisfying the basic entry requirements to third level, but as the Deputy will know, is not accepted for certain courses where strength in mathematics is an important prerequisite. Indeed, perhaps that is how it should be. For example, it is acceptable for entry to certain BA courses but is not acceptable for engineering, science or economics where strong proficiency in mathematics is to be expected. To do it any other way would mean some students would not be able to keep up.
Would the Minister not agree it is unfair and inequitable to students — who enter such courses in a bona fide manner, assurances having been given them — that effectively 200 courses are now closed off to them for third level entry purposes? Does the Minister realise that the teachers and the colleges are adamant that the standard is high, that the teachers in schools believe the standard is high? Would he not agree that it is a highly practical, orientated, well disciplined course? Yet the colleges are digging in, the students being the victims of nothing more than an elitist argument on the part of a number of people in the colleges who pride themselves on having PhDs in mathematics.
I will check out that position quickly. But the principle of students checking what is required for entry to third level is still very good advice: check what you need at leaving certificate level in order to gain entry and follow the particular course you choose at third level, and no difficulty will arise later.
Will the Minister have it examined?
I will.
