Vol. 419 No. 2
2 Mr. Connaughton asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will outline his recently stated plans to encourage enterprise by way of a different approach to the payment of farmers' dole; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
12 Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he intends amending the regulations governing the factual assessment of smallholders applying for unemployment assistance; and if so, if he will outline the changes which he intends introducing.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 and 12 together.
Under the legislation as it stands, a smallholder may qualify for unemployment assistance on the basis of a factual assessment of his means. The calculation of means is done on an income and expenditure basis and represents the gross income from the farm less any expenses actually and necessarily incurred in earning that income. The legislation provides that in the absence of other means of ascertaining the current income of a person, his income is taken as the income in the preceding year. This is only done after the investigating officer of my Department is satisfied that similar opportunities for income from the holding still apply. If the investigating officer is of the opinion that there has been a change in circumstances and that the income from the smallholding has either increased or decreased, the officer will estimate the expected income in the coming 12 months based on the circumstances in each particular case.
The unemployment assistance scheme is a social assistance scheme which is designed to provide applicants with an income related to their needs. Any increase in the income of an applicant automatically leads to a corresponding reduction in the amount of assistance.
I am conscious that the operation of the means test as it stands may deter farmers from attempting to improve their incomes. I am, therefore, examining the unemployment assistance scheme for smallholders to identify the way in which it could contribute to enterprise development; the creation of employment opportunities on small farms and, in particular, not act as a disincentive to smallholders to improve their situation. I intend to bring forward proposals in this regard in the near future.
I thank the Minister for his reply. I ask the Minister whether he himself accepts that the present system of farmers' dole stifles initiative. What exact steps does the Minister intend to take to allow people to better themselves and to extend their endeavours to other farming related enterprises, something that his Government and Commissioner MacSharry often speak about? Can the Minister give an assurance that when that happens his own social welfare officers will not squash the initiative of those involved and ask them the 1,000 questions that have already frightened so many people? I would like the Minister to give an indication of his intentions because I have heard his announcement on at least five other occasions in the past ten years but nothing has ever happened.
The Deputy did not hear that announcement from me.
No, from the Minister's predecessors.
Former Ministers speak for themselves. In the discussion on recent social welfare legislation the Deputy and other Deputies, particularly Deputies from the west, emphasised the points now being made by the Deputy. I know from my own visits to the parts of the country where smallholders' assistance applies that what the Deputy says is correct. Deputy Connaughton, Deputy O'Toole and others have impressed upon me the disincentive effect of the operation of the means test for smallholders as the system stands. In the past couple of weeks I visited the Deputy's part of the country to see for myself what was happening and I spoke to several people invovled in various activities, such as the Programme for Economic and Social Progress initiative. They also impressed that disincentive effect upon me.
What the Deputy says is absolutely correct. As the system operates at present, when a smallholder increases productivity or adds to the number of cattle or sheep held, a corresponding amount of money is taken directly from the dole payment. There is no incentive for a person to either increase the productivity of a smallholding or go into other areas of activity. I am considering a completely different approach. At present the Department are examining ideas that I myself and others have put forward and they are consulting other sources as well. I am considering either the operation of changed procedures on a pilot basis or doing something even more dramatic. I accept what the Deputy has said and I have been impressed by arguments put forward by him and other Deputies. I know that what they say repeats comments made over several years.
At the moment, about 12,700 smallholders get smallholders' assistance. I consider that the Government could attempt a quite radical initiative in that regard and should then examine the way that works over a period of time in order to give smallholders the opportunity of improving their lot. I accept that the present system does not encourage enterprise and gives no incentive to people to better their lot.
Former Minister will have to answer for themselves but whatever system I introduce will be operated by the officials in my Department in a manner laid down by me.
I have heard a similar tune from the Minister's predecessors. Most small farmers genuinely believe that there will be no change. I advise the Minister, whatever he does, not to start another series of examinations or inquiries. If he has his mind made up to do something along the lines of that which I have spoken about so often in the House he should go and do it because it would certainly be better than the system that now exists.
