Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 14 May 1992

Vol. 419 No. 7

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take Nos. 1 and 9 (Votes 33, 36 and 37). It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 1 shall be decided without debate and that the following arrangements shall apply in the case of the Estimates to be taken today: (1) The question necessary to bring the proceedings on Vote 33 to a conclusion shall be put from the Chair not later than 1.30 p.m.; (2) Votes 36 and 37 shall be debated together and decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair not later than 5.00 p.m.; (3) The speech of the Minister and of the main spokesperson for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case, and the speech of each other Member called on shall not exceed ten minutes; (4) A Minister of State may be called on a second time to make a speech in reply; and (5) A Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon not later than 1.20 p.m. and 4.50 p.m. respectively to reply to each debate and any Member may intervene on a point of clarification in the course of such reply.

It is further proposed that the Dáil shall meet tomorrow at 10.30 a.m. and shall adjourn not later than 4 p.m. and that the sitting shall be suspended tomorrow from 12.30 p.m. to 1.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal that No. 1 be taken without debate satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with Votes 32, 36 and 37 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with tomorrow's sitting agreed? Agreed.

Mr. J. Mitchell

Will the Taoiseach agree it is particularly appropriate to take the Labour Estimate today in view of the fact that we are experiencing the worst period of industrial unrest for many years? Does he recall the circumstances and the background to his own appointment as Minister for Posts and Telegraphs in 1979 and the industrial unrest during that period, including the postal strike——

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us wait for the imminent debate on these matters.

Mr. J. Mitchell

I have a question I wish to ask the Taoiseach, with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle.

An Ceann Comhairle

Does the Deputy have a relevant question?

Mr. J. Mitchell

Yes, Sir. I wish to ask the Taoiseach, bearing in mind the background to his own appointment in 1979 as Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, whether the Government have any plans to amend the Post and Telecommunications Services Act, 1983.

The Taoiseach

That is not relevant to promised legislation.

Mr. Spring

I wish to seek clarification from the Taoiseach in relation to the long-promised and long-awaited Green Paper on Education. Despite the promises that there would be an education debate and that the Green Paper would be published early in the year — in fact, it was to be published last year but because of various changes the publication was delayed — neither of those things has happened. What are the intentions of the present Minister? Will a Green Paper be published? Will the Minister circulate even his introduction to the Green Paper, which he released in a blaze of publicity during the week after Easter? Does he intend to circulate Deputies with those documents?

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter is not strictly relevant on the Order of Business.

Mr. T. O'Sullivan

It is promised legislation.

An Ceann Comhairle

I should prefer it if the Deputy were dealing with legislation rather than with the issue of papers.

The Taoiseach

The Green Paper will be published. Today the Minister for Education will be in the House to answer questions and I should have expected Deputies opposite to put down the relevant questions to him.

Mr. Spring

When will it be published?

Mr. Howlin

Education legislation has been promised.

Proinsias De Rossa

In view of the fact that talks between An Post and the unions have now come to a standstill, does the Taoiseach propose to take any steps to intervene? In particular, does he intend to ask the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications to stop making statements that exacerbate the difficulties?

An Ceann Comhairle

One of the most recent matters on which the House deliberated was that particular issue. I shall not permit a rehash of that debate this morning.

Proinsias De Rossa

A Cheann Comhairle, you may find that the issue is not relevant to the Standing Orders but it is relevant to tens of thousands of people outside the House. It is time the Government got off their hands and did something about it.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, the House discussed the matter last evening.

Mr. Ferris

Will the Taoiseach make time available for statements from the Minister for Agriculture and Food on his return from the Council of Ministers' meeting in Lisbon in relation to the reform of the Common Agricultural Policy?

An Ceann Comhairle

That matter can be dealt with in many other ways.

Mr. Ferris

Will the Taoiseach make time available for statements?

Mr. R. Bruton

I wish to ask the Taoiseach at what stage of preparation is the Health Insurance Bill at present. Further, will that legislation provide for the systematic expropriation of funds from HIV members in the way that that was done in amendment No. 151 of the Finance Bill — an underhand fashion without any proper notice to or consultation with the House?

The Taoiseach

In reply to the latter part of the question, that matter was a part of the budget and it is being put in order in the Finance Bill. The preparation of a scheme is under way but details will not be available until later this year.

Mr. Durkan

Could the Taoiseach indicate the present status of the revised Joint Programme for Government, making particular reference to the issue of the retention and expansion of indigenous industry and jobs in this country? I draw attention to the position of the Bord na Móna works at Lullymore in County Kildare.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is well aware of the ways and means to deal with that matter.

Mr. Durkan

Why did the Minister for the Environment refuse to meet a delegation to discuss the matter?

Mr. Hogan

He would not do that.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

He would not even discuss the matter.

Mr. Quinn

In view of the Government's efforts to try to maximise the success of the outcome of negotiations in relation to the Delors II package——

Mr. Sheehan

What about going through the right channels?

An Ceann Comhairle

Interruptions must cease.

Mr. Quinn

Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle. In view of the importance to this country of the Delors II package and the absolute necessity to get our road transportation system correct, I ask the Taoiseach when it is proposed to proceed with the 1991 Roads Bill, which is languishing at Committee Stage.

Mr. Deasy

Will we ever proceed with it?

Mr. Quinn

There is a Roads Bill, Taoiseach.

Mr. Howlin

Everybody agrees.

The Taoiseach

A scheme is being prepared at the moment.

Mr. Quinn

Arising from what the Taoiseach has just said, could I take it that the eternal differences between the Fianna Fáil Party and the Progressive Democrats Party in respect of the contents of the legislation have not been resolved?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot debate the matter now.

A Deputy

Is it or is it not awkward to say "no"?

Mr. Deasy

I understand that yesterday the Minister for Agriculture and Food had a bilateral meeting with his Portuguese counterpart. There seems to be a major possibility that the talks on the reform of the Common Agricultural Policy will be completed next week. In view of that would the Government make time——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is adverting to a matter on which I have already ruled this morning.

Mr. Deasy

——to have a debate on the matter tomorrow?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry, Deputy Deasy, but this is not acceptable on the Order of Business.

Mr. Deasy

Would the Minister and the Government be agreeable to that proposal?

Mr. J. Mitchell

That is an orderly question.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not, and the Deputy knows it.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Could we have an answer to the question?

Mr. Deasy

These are probably the most important negotiations concerning this country at the moment but we have had no discussion on them.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is nothing to do with the Order of Business.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

There are many other ways of dealing with the issue.

Mr. G. Mitchell

I know that progress has been made on the Comptroller and Auditor General's legislation, so that the matter may be kept on the record — and I have been raising it regularly — I wish to ask the Taoiseach how soon the Bill will be published.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is being repetitious.

Mr. Quinn

Could you not mate with the Comptroller and Auditor General?

(Interruptions.)

Mr. G. Mitchell

That is the best offer I have had all day.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy will be glad to hear that the legislation is almost ready.

Mr. J. Higgins

May I ask the Taoiseach whether he realises that since his Government came into office on February 27 items relating to education have been raised in the House on the Adjournment Debate or at "grievance time" but his Minister for Education has not come into the House on one occasion to deal with an issue. Has there been a change in policy? Does the Taoiseach realise — as you realise, A Cheann Comhairle — that last night we had a gross discourtesy when neither the Minister nor the Minister of State was available?

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us have a succinct and relevant question on the Order of Business.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

That is a disgrace.

Mr. J. Higgins

May I have a reply from the Taoiseach as to whether there has been a change of policy? Are Ministers not now expected to be present to deal with such issues?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry, but the Deputy is not conforming to the procedure followed on the Order of Business.

Mr. Sheehan

In view of the approval given by the EC Commissioners, including Ireland's Ray McSharry, in Brussels yesterday to a controversial energy tax, would the Taoiseach now state what plans he has to safeguard the continuation of the natural wind energy system at Cape Clear Island——

An Ceann Comhairle

That is a very good question, which could be put down in the appropriate way.

Mr. Sheehan

——and to promote the development of similar systems throughout the country? The Taoiseach's predecessor was very interested in that.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am now calling Item Nos. 1, the Finance Bill, 1992, report of the Special Committee.

Mr. Sheehan

The wind energy system at Cape Clear Island was promoted with pomp and glory a few years ago. Has the Taoiseach completely reneged on the promises made by the former Taoiseach? Has the Taoiseach any contribution to make in relation to safeguarding the wind energy system on Cape Clear Island?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Sheehan, please.

Mr. Sheehan

A Cheann Comhairle, this is an important matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy, you have made your point.

Mr. Sheehan

But this is important.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Sheehan, I have tolerated sufficiently your unruly intervention. Please resume your seat.

Mr. Sheehan

It is a very important question.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Sheehan, please resume your seat. This House must proceed to the Order of Business proper.

Mr. Wilson

The prevailing wind is from the south west.