The section of the Programme for a Partnership Government "Broadening our Democracy" outlines measures which the Government believes will accelerate the process of institutional reform. Specific reforms are proposed in the programme dealing with electoral reform, local government reform and Oireachtas reform. The measures being debated today and tomorrow are a reflection of the Government's commitment to Oireachtas reform.
Reform of the procedure and practices of a legislative assembly is not something which can be dealt with in a summary way. A root and branch approach is necessary. Rather than dwell on previous attempts at reform and perceived successes or failures, I should like today to reflect on the package of measures proposed in the Government document and outline the thinking behind them.
The purpose of reform of the Dáil is to improve the efficiency of the way the House does its business, to provide individual Deputies with a more effective legislative function and a more meaningful role in the consideration of public policy. It is also necessary to ensure that the Government is fully accountable to the Dáil for its policies, decisions and actions. These objectives are an expression of our commitment to open Government as outlined in the Programme for a Partnership Government.
Over the years the perception has grown that Deputies' influence on the legislative process has diminished and that the role of a Deputy as an ombudsman for his or her consituents has assumed greater importance. This has led to much discussion on the appropriate role for Members of Dáil Éireann.
Throughout the ages legislators, historians and philosophers have speculated about whether representatives' first loyalties should be to constituency, to party, to country or to one's own conscience. Perhaps the most frequently quoted authority is Edmund Burke who, in a speech in 1774 said:
Parliament is a deliberate assembly of one nation, with one interest, that of the whole, where, not local purpose, not local prejudices ought to guide but the general good, resulting from the reason of the whole."
Society in the 20th century is different from the one in which Edmund Burke lived; yet, his classic statement serves as one ideal when we consider what the Dáil ought to be.
Parliamentarians today represent a diverse electorate, and their ideas on the role of Deputies are equally varied. Deputies, for there part, must keep a balance between constituency and party endeavour and their duties as legislators. The measures proposed here are an attempt to enhance the role of the Deputy, and to strengthen the role of the Dáil as the key to maintaining confidence in our central democratic institution.
I would now like to refer to the detail of some of the proposals. The Government document on Dáil Reform submitted to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges in April 1992 contained a proposal for the relaxation of the sub judice rule. By longstanding practice, the House imposed on itself the convention of the sub judice rule, the purpose of which was to avoid the risk of prejudicing judicial proceedings or of being seen to interfere with the administration of justice in the courts. The rule is, of course, commendable in itself. However, as with any rule, no matter how well founded in principle, it has had a disproportionate effect on Dáil proceedings and over many years has become very restrictive and prevented the House from discussing matters of real public concern, excepting, of course, debate on legislation. Guidelines have been prepared to assist the Ceann Comhairle in the implementation of the proposed new Standing Order. The relaxation of the rule will open up debate on matters of public concern, particularly where so called “gagging writs” were utilised in the past.
The guidelines set out the conditions that should apply to the raising of a matter which is sub judice. The matter raised must be of general public importance. This is to ensure that only bona fide matters of public interest which clearly relate to matters of general public policy are raised.
A matter may not be raised where it relates to a case where notice has been served, that is, to be heard before a jury; or is then being heard before a jury. This minimises the risks of prejudicing a hearing, on the presumption that in non-jury actions the risk would be minimal. A matter should not be raised in such a manner that it appears to be an attempt by the Oireachtas to encroach on the functions of the courts or a judicial tribunal. The long standing ruling of the Chair that "members of the Judiciary are independent by virtue of the Constitution and they may neither be criticised nor have their rulings referred to in the House except on a substantive motion" shall continue to apply.
The principle of the separation of powers in the Constitution must be observed. Members may only raise matters in a substantive manner where due notice is required. It is important that the Chair should not be placed in the position which requires him to make instant rulings during the course of a debate on the admissibility or otherwise of matters sub judice within the context of the guidelines. The Chair should have adequate opportunity to become aware that a matter to be raised is relevant within the context of the guidelines and to decide whether the matter to be raised is of general public importance.
When permission to raise a matter has been granted, there continues to be an onus on Members to avoid comment which might, in effect, prejudice the outcome of proceedings. Members should always be mindful of the fact that the possibility that comment might prejudice proceedings always exists, ever when raising a matter within the guidelines.
This new sub judice proposal is subject to the established rules of procedure of the House. Thus, for example, reference to specific cases being heard or to be heard by name or in such a manner so that the parties to the hearing may be identifiable, should not be made. The general point of substance at issue can be raised without readily identifying or criticising the parties involved.
The guidelines endeavour to strike a balance to allow matters of public interest to be raised while, at the same time, protecting as far as possible from the risk of prejudice or perceived interference in the courts. However, a certain onus of responsibility should rest on Members for raising matters sub judice.
A register of Members' interests is being introduced, initially on a non-statutory basis, by wasy of motion in the House. A provision in this regard will be made in the forthcoming Ethics in Government Bill, which will put it on a statutory basis.
The purpose of the register is to give public notification of those material interests held by Members which could be thought by others to influence their parliamentary conduct or actions. The motives in establishing the register is to provide Deputies with a means of declaring relevant material interests. It is not intended, nor should it be the case, that a Member's right to privacy should be invaded.
It should be pointed out that Deputies debate public policy and hold to account those who take executive decisions. All members have an interest, on behalf of their constituents, as well as in their own right, in all aspects of public policy and must be allowed to participate in their deliberation. Members of the House are also entitled to engage in outside activities. We welcome into the Oireachtas people with a wide range of experience whether in business, trade unions, the agriculture industry, education, health or any activity that broadens the range of expertise in the House. The business of the House and the duties of Members are so all-embracing that inevitably there will be occasions when a Member's personal interests may be pulled in a different direction from the policy of his party or his wider responsibilities as a legislator.
The register of interests affects all Members directly and personally. I know that all Members have views, many strongly held, on how far the register should seek to obtain information, whether the value of all the assets or interests held by Members should be declared, whether the interests of Members' relatives or spouses should be declared; indeed in an age of equality, whether the independent income or otherwise of spouse be declared. For instance, if a spouse refused to declare such interest on the basis that he or she was not a member of the House, contending that his or her business interests are not open to public scrutiniy, how could we impose a sanction on the Member of the House? Members also have view on whether such a declaration for Members or their spouses should be made either publicly or privately and the extent to which such a declaration should be made. The debate tomorrow will provide an opportunity for all the Deputies to air their views and express their concerns.
The Ethics in Government Bill is at present in the course of preparation. The views od all Deputies will be given careful consideration before that Bill is presented to the House. It is intended that a copy of the register will be published and made available in the Oireachtas Library.
The new committee system being introduced is probably the greatest single change in the way the House conducts its business since the foundation of the State. The potential for each Deputy to influence legislation and spending by Departments should not be underestimated. The first major business which the finance general affairs committee will consider wil be the Committee Stage of the Finance Bill. I know a special committee considered the Finance Bill last year when the experiment was a significant success, a fact acknowledged by all Members who participated. Indeed, the way in which parties co-operate when Bills are sent to committees was a factor in the decision on the formation of the new system. In general, when special committees considered Bills in the past amendments and ideas from backbenchers on all sides of the House were accepted on all readily than across the floor of the House, the atmosphere being less confrontational and adversarial, everybody making a contribution. The Government is anxious to ensure that this approach continues within the new committee system.
I should like to draw the attention of Deputies to a number of significant points in the terms of reference of the committees. First, the committees will be able to hire people with specialist knowledge to assist them, and may invite submissions in writing, if considered necessary, from interested persons or bodies; second, the Government envisages there will be close co-operation between Departments preparing legislation and the committees. Before consideration of the Committee Stage of a Bill by the committee private briefing session shall be held between the officials of the relevant Department and Members of the new-style committees.
Three further legislative committees will be established in the near future, — the enterprise and economic strategy committee, the social affairs committee and the legislative and security committee. Legislation and Estimates from all Departments will be sent to committees, as the Dáil decides. The new committee system is a significant development in the evolution of the role of committees. It builds on the expertise gained over many years. Each committee will have 30 members. They will be properly resourced, their chairpersons and convenors, who will act as Whips will be remunerated. Legislation regarding privilege and the question of compelling witnesses to attend will be introduced as a priority.
A new foreign affairs committee is included in the Government proposals. This will be a joint committee of both Houses, the Dáil Members of which will consider the Estimates for the Public Services submitted to Dáil Éireann in respect of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation and report thereon to the Dáil. The joint committee will deal with the Committee Stages of all Bills referred to it. The joint committee will also consider those matters previously the responsibility of the Joint Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the European Communities. Members of the European Parliament elected from constituencies in Ireland, including Northern Ireland, may attend meeting of the joint committee and of its sub-committees. Other members of the European Parliament may, at the invitation of the joint committee or of a sub-committees, attend particular meetings. Members of the European Parliament attending on such occasions may take part in the proceeding but without having a right to vote.
The introduction of the new committee system will necessitate many changes regarding arrangements for sittings to ensure more effective and efficient use of Dáil time. These changes will take place after the fullest possible consultation. When the new system is put in place it will bring about a complete and fundamental change in the way operate in this House. I should like to put it on the record that that can only be done with the full assistance and co-operation of Deputies on all sides because it is a matter that affects all Deputies in the House.
In relation to other reforms, a revamped adjournment procedure and separate Taoiseach Question Times are other measures proposed which represent a commitment to improved accountability a and scrutiny of the Government by Deputies. A new procedure for the introduction of Private Members' Bill is also proposed. This is designed to give Deputies on all the right to introduce Bills and explain to the House the purpose of their respective initiatives.
In relation to voting procedures, there has been longstanding criticism — with which few would disagree — that current voting procedures waste time. The introduction of electronic voting in the autumn should eliminate these problems. In the meantime new procedures are being introduced to streamline current practice while ensuring that Deputies have the right to vote against any measures with which they disagree.
The measures are an attempt to ensure that, where possible, divisions will be postponed to a set voting time. Voting will take place at that time in a manner which processes the divisions as speedily as possible while maintaining the rights of Deputies. Obviously, divisions pressed on the Order of Business will have to be taken at that time.
We have tried to streamline the taking of divisions on Committee and Report Stages of Bills to ensure that while the rights of Deputies to oppose sections or parts of Bills and propose amendments must be protected, the greatest amount of time should be spent debating legislation rather than voting.
Reforms suggests a sharp transition from one condition to another but the increasing pace of change, the perception of the needs of the citizen, and the increasing complexity of the tasks of Government require a developmental strategy of change.
The measures being introduced today are a progression of developments that occurred in the last Dáil which saw the introduction of televising Dáil proceedings. This enabled the public to experience at first hand the operation of the Dáil. There is an increased public awareness of the way in which we, their public representatives, carry our work on their behalf. Last April, after examining existing procedures, the Government proposed a wide series of measures designed to address the perceived inefficience and inadequacies of the present system. These measures were broadly welcomed by the Working Group of the Committee of Procedure and Privileges which was established to consider the Government proposals. I should like to place on the record of the House my thanks to my colleagues in the group, Deputies Flanagan and Clohessy, the Minister for health, Deputy Howlin, the former Deputy McCartan, Deputy Enda Kenny and Deputy Rabbitte who responded to the proposals in an extremely positive manner. Indeed, many of those proposals are incorporated in the proposals before us today.
I should like to respond briefly to some criticism expressed recently on the attendance of TD's in the Dáil Chamber. As all Deputies are aware, as indeed are most of the general public, the majority of a Deputy's work does not involve sitting in the Dáil Chamber listening to debates. I have no doubt that if Deputies sat in this Chamber listening to Dáil debates the criticism would be that it was a very unproductive way of conducting our business. To a certain extent, the new committee system will allow Deputies to participate more fully. Televised porceedings of Dáil debate are relayed to all Deputies' offices and to public areas in Leinster House. Therefore, it is not necessary for Deputies to sit in the Chamber to listen, or follow, a debate.
Apart from following the proceedings Of the house, as I said earlier, Deputies Must represent their constituents and Much of this type of work, such as contact With Ministers or Departments or attending with deputations, is undertaken while the Dáil is sitting, simply because Ministers are available in the House, unless otherwise engaged on official business.
Deputies are frequently criticised for doing constituency work. Many people, particularly those in the media, take the view that Deputies should not do this work. As every Member knows, Deputies who do not do constituency work will not be re-elected to this House. A balance has to br maintained and we, as legislators, are trying to maintain that balance. It is unfair to attack Members of this House for doing constituency work, which is a vital part of their role as public representatives. The criticisms in this regard are unfounded and, in some cases, display an ignorance.
The measures being discussed today will be introduced by way of sessional orders. This will allow further refinement, if necessary, before their incorporation in Standing orders. The Government is preparing further reform proposals as part of a development strategy of reform and these will be brought forward for discussion shortly.
As I indicated earlier, the government is committed to a programme of institutional reform. The measures proposed today, or indeed Oireachtas reform alone, are not the complete answer to the development of the legislator who is focussed on the broader national, or indeed international perspective. It would be instructive if Deputies expressed their views on any possible constitutional change which they believe would be necessary to bring this wider objective about.
Finally, I wish to say that the Government does not believe that only the reform measures it suggests should be pursued. As Minister of State with responsibility for Dáil Reform, I wish to say that any party or Deputy with ideas or proposals for constructive change will be listed to. For my part, I undertake to give full and careful consideration to all the suggestions put forward.