Vol. 426 No. 5
10 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for the Environment the response of the Government to the interim report of the Dublin Transportation Initiative; if he accepts the recommendations of the report; if resources will be made available for their implementation; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
The Programme for a Partnership Government contains a commitment to start the implementation of key elements of the strategy recommended by the Dublin Transportation Initiative. Planning work is proceeding on various elements of the strategy. The allocation of resources is being considered in the context of the preparation of the National Development Plan which will be submitted to the EC Commission, as the basis for Structural Fund support, later this year.
Will the Minister give some indication of the size of the investment, in the normal lifetime of this Government, which he expects for the implementation of the Dublin transport initiative? Will he specifically state in regard to the four proposed light rail lines, how many he expects to be in place in the lifetime of this Government? How many special bus lanes does he expect to be provided in the same time?
The interim recommendations are interlocking and complementary and it would not be wise at this very early stage to separate them. They embrace a very comprehensive range of activities which involve upgrading public transport, completion of the southern and northern ring, the southern motorway, very much improved traffic management and calming measures in residential areas, and facilities for cyclists, pedestrians and disabled people. We have to try to approach this on the basis of the elements of this package which can be fitted into the national plan for submission to Brussels for funds. It is the first time we have had the analyses and the type of proposals which can be implemented, backed by the Commission, the transport agencies and the Government with clear signs of a very definite commitment to very substantial investment in all these areas. I will not at this early stage, as I await the final report and the preparation of that plan, start sectorising and breaking out the different components, because they interlock. It is very important to get the maximum resources possible. Of course the Deputy will be aware that the interim measures proposed by the DTI would mean, over a period of years, expenditure running into several hundred millions of pounds.
We all have a fair idea of what is in the Dublin transport initiative. I am seeking to establish some idea of the Government's intention with regard to its implementation. I specifically asked the Minister, and I am asking him again, to give some indication to the House as to the size of investment he anticipates in the lifetime of this Government, the size of funding he anticipates he will be drawing down from the European Community in relation to that investment and, without necessarily splitting one part or another, the extent, if any, of light rail provision that will be provided.
When the interim report was handed to me, I indicated in the firmest way possible the clear Government intention to implement as far as physically and financially possible the main recommendations of the Dublin Transportation Initiative. To go further than that is unreal at a stage when we have to complete that report and submit it as part of a plan to the EC to draw down Structural Funds. It will go into multi millions of pounds. The type of resources available now at Community level backed up by national support and agreed by the transport agencies and the public as a whole will be necessary to deal with the choking traffic problems of the city and with environmental questions arising from that. There will be very substantial investment made over the next four or five years. It is not fair to talk about specific figures at a preliminary stage before we submit the plan.
I am sure the Minister is aware that neither he nor his colleagues had any difficulty in giving commitments during the election campaign. What has gone wrong with the commitments given two weeks before an election when he cannot answer a question today as to the level of investment that will be made during the lifetime of this Government? He is probably not prepared to speculate on a six months basis and I accept that.
The lack of a proper transport system is destroying any plans that were in place for the development of three towns in County Dublin. The inability of people to connect between the three towns and the city has caused major social problems and will continue to do so until proper investment is put into the transport system.
This is the first time that an attempt has been made to co-ordinate and get the full picture——
We got the full picture before the election.
——as to how all these questions are to be answered.
The Minister did not do that before the manifesto——
I did not interrupt the Deputy——
Let us hear the reply.
In relation to commitments given in the general election Deputy Barrett may not have been watching closely what I said. The commitment I gave was to reduce a hefty expenditure as far as Dublin transport was concerned——
I am waiting for another commitment to be met, that given in the 1987 general election campaign.
——involving the Eastern by-pass. The Deputy can be satisfied that this comprehensive plan for the management of the transport systems, the layout and the various elements that will go into it will be developed in the most dynamic, progressive, sensitive way ever in the history of the State.
The Minister sounds more like Deputy Brian Lenihan everyday.
I am listening to everybody and I can afford to listen to the Deputy.
Would the Minister agree, going back to the interim findings of the DTI and their view in relation to the co-ordination of services etc., that there should not be a division between the Department of Transport and the ministry responsible for roads? Has the Minister responsibility, under the Department of the Environment portfolio, for the Dublin rail system and if so, when will we have it?
I put in place some time ago a new co-ordinating system between the Departments responsible for the transport area. It is very important to have the greatest possible cohesion. I am having discussions with my colleague, Deputy Brian Cowen. Definite proposals are well advanced for the light rail system and will form a significant part of plans to be submitted to Brussels.
Would the Minister not agree that if he wants to fulfil all those objectives he has just described, perhaps the light rail system is the best way of doing so? Do the proposals for a light rail system to Dublin airport and on to Swords, which has a population of 25,000 people, form part of the Minister's submission for funding to Brussels?
I have a wider responsibility for the city and county as a whole. Needless to say, I would want to make sure that not only Deputies like Deputy Owen are facilitated but other people in the city as well. I would be very anxious to do that.
Given that the Eastern by-pass is a dead duck, no doubt saving millions of pounds, would the Minister agree that the investment that would have been involved ought to be redirected to provide the necessary rail link to compensate for not having the Eastern by-pass so that port access can be more ecologically based on rail transport rather than road? Would he agree that people trying to get through the city ought to be encouraged to travel by rail and furthermore that Swords should be tied in with the airport for that reason, otherwise people there would have to travel far west before coming back into the south of the city through the Northern cross?
The Deputy is correct in saying that the Eastern by-pass is a dead duck. In answer to the question about the redirection of resources to light rail public transport, there will be a substantial plan for public transport and light rail for Dublin.
We are all concerned to find solutions to access to the port. We need to take heavy vehicle traffic off the main streets. The port's economic prospects have been somewhat enhanced in recent times. The port is a very important element of the commercial life of the city and needs to be able to breathe freely. The solution to access to the port is one of the areas where I have asked the DTI to come forward with definite proposals in the near future. I do not think we can solve the other problems unless we also——
The Programme for Government states that we have a port access route.
We are concentrating on getting the job done. Every time the Deputy interrupts me he is wasting time. I do not want to waste time.
At the rate the Minister is going I would be concerned about it.
There will be no ducks quacking.
Even Deputy Stagg will be a dead duck.
We should have some news on that element which deals primarily with port access within about two months.
Before the Deputy proceeds I want to bring the questioning to finality. Deputy Molloy is in order. I will call Deputy Durkan and Deputy Gilmore for a final question.
Does the Minister intend publishing a comprehensive plan setting out the proposals it is intended to fund from the Structural and Cohesion Funds when they become available in regard to transport policy? Will this plan contain expenditure to meet the transport needs of other parts of the country, as well as the urgent needs of the Dublin area? From the major announcements made at Government level, one gets the impression that a very large percentage of the Structural Funds are being committed to one region whereas there are major problems in other areas.
The question relates to the Dublin Transportation Initiative but I appreciate Deputy Molloy's point. He can be sure that as we move towards the final stages of the development of the plan the consultation taking place in all the regions will result in concrete and definite proposals for the country as a whole. I made a public statement last September or October in relation to some of the western routes that have to be developed. Needless to say, it will not only be comprehensive in terms of Dublin city but will take account of the agricultural, tourism, commercial and industrial needs of the country as a whole, as far as we can afford it.
When will these plans be available?
The plans will emerge from the consultative process in the regions themselves. I am quite sure there will be an input from local authorities and elected members. When the priorities have been established I have no objection at all in having——
When will they be published?
It will take some time yet.
Will the Minister outline the criterion he intends to employ in the determination of priorities in respect of the plan prior to submission for funding from Brussels?
The national good.
That will be a first anyway.
A Fianna Fáil seat and a Minister is essential.
In a final attempt to penetrate the haze of PR in which the Minister is enveloped, could I ask him——
The Deputy just does not want it to happen.
In relation to the extension of the DART service, will the people of Tallaght get the extension of the rail service in the lifetime of this Government?
The same as the hospital.
Deputy Gilmore on a number of occasions has sought to extract detailed information in relation to one area in the city. I have, as I said already, responsibility for the city and the county in this respect. I will not section off little pieces in response to demands here, regardless of the pressure. I can take it. I can wait.
The Minister must have a general strategy.
That is essentially what I want to achieve. The plan and its implementation will be most comprehensive. Do not be afraid of it; we will try to put all of those elements in but——
I want an answer.
One cannot be afraid of something one knows nothing about.
——we are not going to splinter all that.
Does the Minister know what DTI stands for?
