Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 6 Apr 1993

Vol. 429 No. 3

Adjournment Debate. - Unemployment Assistance Assessment.

Mr. Browne

(Carlow-Kilkenny): I raised this matter during the debate on the Social Welfare Bills in 1991 and 1992 and the Minister told me in 1991, in particular, that he had every sympathy for the case I made. I hope that sympathy bears fruit tonight and that his promise will be worthwhile.

The very survival of the self-employed, especially tradesmen like carpenters and painters, with a wife and family, is called into question by the way the Department of Social Welfare treat them. These are ordinary workers, not like those on £100,000 a year who can stack away savings and draw from them the following year. These ordinary people go out to work every day and try to earn sufficient income to keep their families. When work dries up they apply for unemployment assistance and they are then assessed by the social welfare officers. Out of date rules are applied which do not deal with the problem. The deciding officer tells the applicant that although he is not earning a wage he will be assessed on the income earned when working. This is ridiculous.

At present I have three cases in hand. The first involves a person in his early sixties who never before had to go to the employment exchange. He cannot get work but he is told he has an income of £155 per week. If he had, he would not be going to the employment exchange, the second case is that of a painter who could not even get a door to paint at present after all his years in the trade. He is told he has an income of £135 per week because he earned that last year. In the third case a man was told he has an income of £85 per week because he had an income of that level last year. This man and his wife are paid the lordly sum of £1.30 at the employment exchange, because he is told he has an income of £85 per week. Like the other two I mentioned he would not need to apply for social welfare if he had this income.

Even those who earn a very high wage would not have enough money left over to carry them through the following year if they did not have an income. The Minister should review the situation so that people who are genuinely out of work and have no income are not expected to live on imaginary earnings. It is difficult enough to live on real earnings, but it is impossible to live on imaginary earnings.

Minister for Social Welfare (Dr. Woods)

As the Deputy will know, the assessment of income of the self-employed is always a matter of some difficulty. Legislation governing entitlement to unemployment assistance provides that all cash income which an applicant or his or her spouse may reasonably expect to receive during the coming year, other than specific payments — allowances excluded by the Act, must be assessed as means.

Income from self-employment as a tradesman or a small farmer is assessable under this heading. The assessment of means is based on the income which the applicant is likely to earn during the succeeding year. Obviously, this is where the difficulty arises in determining what a person is likely to earn in the coming year in the case of the self-employed. In the case of smallholders or other self-employed people, the income in the year preceding the year of claim is taken as a reference or starting point for the assessment. In general, this approach is to the advantage of people, but where fewer opportunities for self-employment and income are likely to be available over the year ahead, an adjustment will be made to relfect this.

Means for self-employed people are assessed on an income and expenditure basis, that is, gross income less expenses incurred in earning that income. The net figure is then divided by 52 to calculate weekly means. The appropriate rate of unemployment assistance for the claimant and his or her family is then reduced by the weekly means as assessed.

If a person is dissatisfied with an assessment, he or she can have the case reviewed by the independent social welfare appeals office. I would like to point out to the Deputy that it is also open to a claimant to apply for a review of the case if at any point his or her circumstances change.

I have directed my Department to ensure that the method of assessment of means used for self-employed people should have the flexibility to respond to variations in the circumstances of claimants.

As the Deputy will know, the deciding officers make these decisions. That is the way the system works. Deciding officers are statutorily appointed under the legislation and they operate the legislation as set down by this House in the first instance. Generally speaking it works quite well, but if there are cases where it is not working there is the appeals system. If, as the Deputy suggests, he has a number of cases, I would be happy if he would supply the details of the three cases involved and I will look into the matter, particularly if there are not any doors to paint for the next year. That is where the argument arises as to whether a person has some income, no income or whatever.

Mr. Browne

(Carlow-Kilenny): The person could die in the meantime.

Dr. Woods

There is a weekly supplmentary welfare allowance — that is the theory in any event. If the Deputy lets me have details of the cases he referred to, I will have them fully investigated.