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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 27 Apr 1993

Vol. 429 No. 6

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Aer Lingus Equity Provision.

Michael Noonan

Ceist:

20 Mr. Noonan (Limerick East) asked the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications if his attention has been drawn to a letter dated 18 March 1993 sent to Commissioner Abel Matutes by the director general of AUC, a United Kingdom-based air transport users committee representing air passengers and shippers; if his attention has further been drawn to the fact that the letter urges strongly against permission being granted by the Commission to the Irish Government to provide equity to Aer Lingus; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I am aware that a number of submissions have been made to the European Commission on the matter of the Government's providing equity to Aer Lingus. I am sure that the Commission will take these into consideration in making its decision on any application by the Government in relation to the provision of equity to Aer Lingus.

As I have already informed the House, I have had a meeting with Commissioner Van Miert to discuss EC competition policy issues in so far as they apply to State investment in Aer Lingus. Last week, I also had discussions with Transport Commissioner Matutes who has responsibility for the State aid provisions of the EC Treaty in so far as they apply to air transport. I have found the attitude of both Commissioners very helpful and informative in these preliminary discussions. I have assured them that the Government will comply fully with the State aid provisions of the Treaty in relation to any State investment in Aer Lingus.

(Limerick East): Is the Minister aware of a specific letter from Mr. John Parr, a former member of Mr. Leon Britton's Cabinet and now director general of AUC, which opposes any injection of equity into Aer Lingus?

The Deputy is prohibited from quoting or displaying a document.

(Limerick East): I am not quoting nor am I displaying it, but I want to show that I have the letter in my possession. Has the Minister got a copy of this letter and is he aware of the opposition being put to the relevant Commissioner by this very strong consumers' body in the UK which has strong political connections? Is he aware also that this is happening in circumstances where the Irish Government has made no application yet for funding for Aer Lingus? Will the Minister again explain his discussions with the Commissioners he mentioned? In reply to a question put down by the MEP, Mr. John Cushnahan, in the European Parliament on 23 April, just two days ago, the relevant Commissioner said he had not yet received any notification from the Irish Government concerning the financing of the restructuring of Aer Lingus. The question asked whether either a formal or informal approach was made. It seems to me that there is a straight conflict in the information the Minister has given in this House because it suggests there has been an informal approach but the response to the question in the European Parliament — I am not quoting, I am just referring to the words in front of me——

Deputy Noonan knows the rules of Question Time.

(Limerick East): I am not quoting I am just checking my words against what I have in front of me. The question tried to establish——

Limerick East): The question tried to establish whether the Commission has received formal or informal approaches but the reply to both questions was “no”.

The answer to both questions is "no".

(Limerick East): Is the Minister misleading the House?

Is the Minister doing his job at all?

The inference that the Minister is misleading the House should not be made——

It is withdrawn.

——and if it has been made in a serious vein it must be withdrawn.

(Limerick East): It is not said in that vein. If I have caused concern or offence, I am very sorry.

The Deputy is incapable of causing me offence or consternation and there is no need to worry. I am glad to see the Deputy is taking on his new portfolio with zest and I commend him for it.

(Limerick East): The Minister is doing very well.

Thank you, Deputy. I met Commissioner Van Miert and after that meeting I made it clear that the position is as follows. The question of equity for Aer Lingus can only be looked at in the context of the comprehensive proposals and plans being put in place and it is not possible to deal with the question of equity in isolation from the recovery proposals being implemented by the airline. For that reason no formal application has been submitted as of yet because we must have — and I am sure the Deputy agrees with me — the detailed recovery proposals in place, because of our wider responsibilities to the taxpayer. We must know the level of equity that should be put into Aer Lingus before we will be in a position to put the full package to the European Commission.

I assure Deputy Noonan that at political and official levels I and the officials of my Department have been in touch with the relevant directorates and we have spoken to the relevant Commissioners. We are ensuring that the proposal we make will be in line with the State Aid Regulations that apply. We have had full discussions with the EC officials and they are very happy with the approach we are taking. We have told them that we will be in touch as soon as the full recovery proposals are to hand so that a decision on the level of equity for Aer Lingus can be made by the Government. That is the position. It was suggested that there was a lack of duty on our part but quite the opposite is the case. I have met with three Commissioners on this issue and I have sent officials to the Commission to ensure that when we make our proposals they will be dealt with expeditiously.

The Deputy will be aware that such an issue has never come before an Irish Government and I want to make sure that when the submissions are made, they will be totally in accord with EC precedent. The Deputy need have no worries whatsoever. Let me assure him that in no way am I misleading the House on this or any other issue.

(Limerick East): I accept the Minister is not totally culpable in this respect but in my view his immediate predecessors were guilty of gross negligence. It is amazing, after all the talk of Mr. Bernie Cahill and the restructuring of Aer Lingus, that a reply to a question put down in the European Parliament last week says the Government has not made any application whatsoever.

Let us avoid repetition.

(Limerick East): I accept the Minister's assurances today but let me assure him that I will be back to this issue at an early date and he would want to make sure that he has his homework done. The relevant Commissioner said in his reply that he would only examine the application when made in line with the conditions of the Treaty of Rome and he made absolutely no commitment at all that the response would be positive. I hope it will not be like the answer to the previous questions — where after five years we got nothing.

When any teacher tells me to do my homework I always take it to heart.

(Limerick East): When any solicitor tells me I check my pocketbook.

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