Robert Molloy
Ceist:11 Mr. Molloy asked the Minister for Defence the timescale he has given to the Efficiency Audit Group in which to make their report; and if it will be published.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Defence Force Structures.
Seán Barrett
Ceist:22 Mr. Barrett asked the Minister for Defence if consultants are being appointed to assist the committee carrying out the review of the structure and roles of the Defence Forces; if so, whether the consultants will be from military or civilian life; and if they will be from outside this country.
Seán Barrett
Ceist:26 Mr. Barrett asked the Minister for Defence if the committee appointed to carry out the review of the structure and roles of the Defence Forces will be consulting the representative bodies of the members of the Defence Forces for their views.
Pat Rabbitte
Ceist:35 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Defence the terms of reference of the review of the Defence Forces announced by him on 29 April 1993; when it is expected that the review will be completed; the extent to which additional responsibility for budgeting will be transferred from him to the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Seán Barrett
Ceist:91 Mr. Barrett asked the Minister for Defence if the terms of reference for the committee appointed to carry out a review of the structures and roles of the Defence Forces will be published; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 11, 22, 26, 35 and 91, together.
The Government has decided that there is a need to conduct a fundamental and thorough review of the structure and organisation of the Defence Forces. The review will proceed in two stages. The Minister for Defence, will prepare for Government approval, an updated statement of roles and priorities for the Defence Forces. The Efficiency Audit Group will then conduct a radical overhaul of the Defence Forces structures and systems on the basis of the revised roles. The first stage, the review of the roles of the Defence Forces, is already under way.
The most recent formal statement of the roles of the Defence Forces dates back to 1981 when their primary role was defined as "to defend the State against external aggression". It is clear that in the changed circumstances of the nineties this formal statement of roles needs to be reviewed. For many years, the operational focus of the Defence Forces in practice has been concentrated on areas such as the provision of assistance to the Garda, service with the United Nations, fishery protection and search and rescue.
It is the Minister's intention to complete the review of roles as rapidly as possible and to report back to Government without delay. Before completing this part of the review, the Minister intends to consult the Select Committee on Legislation and Security so that it will have an opportunity to express its views on this important issue.
When revised roles are approved by Government, terms of reference for the review of the Defence Forces by the Efficiency Audit Group will be drawn up. This group will conduct a fundamental review of the structure of the Defence Forces and recommend such changes to the organisation as are necessary to prepare the Defence Forces to meet the roles assigned by Government as effectively and efficiently as possible. This review will also take stock of progress achieved in implementing the organisational reforms recommended in the Gleeson report.
The report of the Gleeson Commission suggested that management consultants could pay a useful role in any reorganisation of the Defence Forces. It is envisaged, therefore, that consultants may be employed to advise on specific aspects of the review should the EAG require outside expertise to assist it in its work. No arrangements to engage consultants have yet been made.
I thank the Minister for his reply. Will the matter be discussed by the Select Committee on Legislation and Security prior to the setting up of the review body? If that is the case, will the Minister outline the reasons he is considering appointing consultants before the committee has had the opportunity of discussing the matter? If the Government decides to proceed with the appointment of consultants, will they come from civilian or military life? Will this review take account of the provision in the Maastricht Treaty for an 1996 intergovernmental conference on a common defence policy? What role does he envisage for the Defence Forces if a common defence policy is agreed?
We are having quite an extension of the subject matter requested.
I will deal with the Deputy's last question on the inter-governmental conference in 1996. Obviously, the review of the Defence Forces' role will have to take account of the revised role of the Army, but that cannot happen in the context Deputy Barrett spoke about until we know if there will be a change in the EC position on a common defence policy.
The Deputy also asked about the appointment of consultants. In my reply to Deputy Barrett's questions I mentioned the appointment of consultants. The Gleeson Commission suggested that management consultants could possibly play a useful role in reorganisation. If the efficiency audit group decides it is necessary to employ consultants they will be employed and it will be a matter for the efficiency audit group to decide whether they will be military or civilian personnel. However, if consultants are engaged to review an organisation such as this, I imagine that both military and civilian personnel will be involved.
The Minister is already in communication with the chairman of the Select Committee on Legislation and Security to ask him to convene a meeting to discuss the revised roles of the Defence Forces. The appointment of consultants is not a matter for the Government but for the efficiency audit group. It will decide whether it believes it will benefit from the advice of outside consultants.
I wish to raise two points. First, the question of the changing role of the Defence Forces must clearly be linked to the Government's current decision on peace making operations in Somalia. Will the Minister indicate when the Select Committee on Legislation and Security will be convened to discuss the review of the role of the Defence Forces? I think it would be putting the cart before the horse to have amending legislation of the Defence Acts before having had the opportunity to discuss the broader issue of the changing role of the Defence Forces.
Second, I want to question the Minister further on his reply to the question on the Maastricht Treaty. When the Maastricht Treaty is ratified we will be obliged to participate in a common foreign and security policy development which obviously implies a common defence policy as distinct from common defence. I accept that post-1996 we will have to decide whether we want to be involved in specific issues of common defence. Will the Minister clarify his position on the question of whether the review of the role of the Defence Forces will include a review of our role within the terms of the common security policy under Maastricht?
It is the Minister's intention that the Select Committee on Legislation and Security will be consulted about the role of the Defence Forces, in addition to the amendments to the Defence Act, to take account of the UNOSOM mission. As I said already, the Minister has made initial contact through me with the chairman of that committee and will be formalising matters within a day or so. It is intended that this matter be raised at the Select Committee on Legislation and Security within a matter of weeks. I do not wish to pre-empt the decision the committee will make, but it is certainly the Minister's wish that this committee will meet soon. It is not true to say that this is simply linked to the UNOSOM mission. Members on all sides of the House have held the view that the role of the Defence Forces as outlined in the Dáil in 1981 is now outdated and needs to be reviewed. One could say that the impetus generated by the UNOSOM mission has brought it forward a little bit sooner, but it is not solely linked to it and wider issues are involved. The role of the Defence Forces is being reviewed, taking into account all aspects of what is happening around us including EC develpments.
In his reply the Minister referred consistently to the efficiency audit group having control. This strikes me as a money saving exercise on the Government's part, because as far as I am aware the efficiency audit group was set up to try to save money in the various Government Departments. Why should an efficiency audit group set the pace and organise a review of the structures and the role of the Irish Defence Forces? Will the representative bodies, as I ask in Question No. 26, be consulted in the process? How can we possibly discuss the structures in the Defence Forces without the Government first deciding on its role, as different structures are needed for different roles? Would it not make sense that the Government should begin the process of deciding the stance it will take at the intergovernmental conference three years hence? If we do not take account of the possibility of a common defence policy when the review is being carried out, the structures in the Defence Forces may not match our requirements in the future. The Government should begin the process of deciding what role our Defence Forces will play in the European context before deciding on the structures in the Defence Forces. Does the Minister agree with me?
I refer the Deputy to my opening statement and to jog his memory, I will state what I said — the review will proceed in two stages: first, the Minister for Defence will prepare, for Government approval, an updated statement of the roles and priorities for the Defence Forces. That is what will happen initially. As the Deputy rightly pointed out there would be no point in asking an outside agency, such as the efficiency audit group, to talk about streamlining systems and so on if the roles were not clear. The roles will be decided on the basis of recommendations from the Minister for Defence to the Government.
To allay Deputy Barrett's fears in this regard there will be consultation on the roles and the review not only with the Select Committee on Legislation and Security but with Department of Defence personnel, military personnel and representative bodies. When the roles are decided by the Government it will be up to the efficiency audit group to bring forward their plan for administrative systems which will fit in with the revised roles. As the Deputy is aware the efficiency audit group was set up in 1988 not only for the Department of Defence but for all Government Departments with a view to streamlining systems and ensuring efficiency in the administrative systems throughout the Civil Service. That is what is intended here also.
We have passed the time for proceeding to Questions to the Minister for the Marine. I am calling Question No. 39.