Vol. 431 No. 6
6 Miss Harney asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform if he will have discussions with the Incorporated Law Society with a view to exploring the contribution which private practitioners can make towards the provision of civil legal aid; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
28 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform if, in regard to his decision to allocate £100,000 to reduce the length of waiting lists at various law centres by availing of the services of private solicitors, he will give details of the way in which the private solicitors will be integrated into the existing scheme; the steps, if any, which will be taken to ensure equality of treatment between those using the law centres and those referred to private solicitors; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 28 together. When replying to questions in this House on 28 April last I said that it is my intention that the additional £100,000 allocation in 1993 would be used in order to reduce the length of the waiting lists at the various law centres by availing of the services of private solicitors. I believe that private solicitors have a significant contribution to make in helping to provide a cost effective and efficient civil legal aid service and I am considering how best they can make that contribution. In this regard I have sought the views of the Legal Aid Board on the matter.
I have already had discussions with the Incorporated Law Society in relation to the contribution which private practitioners can make. I have also examined the submissions on the subject of private practitioners with particular reference to: the economic benefits which might accrue from having local solicitors act for clients where the courts in question may be distant from the law centre; the feasibility of making arrangements for local solicitors to provide direct service to clients in towns distant from law centres; and in "conflict of interest cases" where the one law centre cannot act for both parties in the one case. Details of the scheme are currently being worked out by the Legal Aid Board and it would be premature at this stage to say in what manner the scheme would operate.
The Minister accepts that in cases of "conflict of interests" and for economic reasons it is preferable to have the private practitioners involved. Before the Minister spends the additional £100,000 allocation on the services of private practitioners will he discuss with the Incorporated Law Society the role of the private practitioner and the setting of a realistic scale of fees? As we know, £100,000 will not go very far if the fees that we had been reading about lately in relation to other matters are charged.
Let me assure Deputy Harney that I will be keeping a very close eye on the level of fees that will be negotiated for solicitors who carry out work under the legal aid scheme. I have had discussions already with the Incorporated Law Society on the general subject and, as Deputy Harney knows, the Incorporated Law Society recommended that private practitioners had a role in this area. I am satisfied they have a role as a supplementary back up facility.
From the point of view of economic efficiency things have not always worked out well in the various law centres, for example, in cases where it was merely an adjournment of a case or an application to a court it was necessary for a solicitor to travel from a distant law centre instead of using a solicitor from the town where the case was being heard. A practice was adopted of sending a solicitor from the law centre and it would take a day to do nothing more than seek an adjournment. That is not economic. Likewise, where clients are a considerable distance from a law centre it makes sense to avail of the services of a private practitioner. I agree that the level of fees will be crucial and I will not agree to any scheme to employ private practitioners unless I am satisfied that the suggested level of fees are reasonable.
Will the Minister be more forthcoming and have the discussions with the Incorporated Law Society in order to reach agreement before we start down the road of employing private practitioners? If it is left to the Legal Aid Board to negotiate fees on a case by case basis, I believe we will not be charged realistic fees, the additional allocation will not go very far, and a bad precedent will be established.
Perhaps I did not make myself clear, but that is exactly what will be done. Fees will not be negotiated on a case by case basis and a scale of fees will be agreed with a set fee for each type of work to be handled, a fee for an adjournment, judicial separation, a barring order or whatever. A scale of fees for all cases will have to be agreed and there is no question of negotiating on an individual basis.
Will that happen soon?
That work is already proceeding.
