Vol. 435 No. 4
12 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform if, in view of his Department's statement expressing disappointment at the failure of County Enterprise Boards to meet the 40 per cent gender quota, he will proceed with the introduction of legislation to ensure a minimum representation for each gender on all public boards; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
58 Ms F. Fitzgerald asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform his views on the response of the social partners to the request for nominations of women to the County Enterprise Boards; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 12 and 58 together.
The Government has decided that when a Minister proposes to appoint members of the board of a State body or is bringing forward proposals to Government for such appointments, and where, after the proposed appointments are made, there would not be a minimum of 40 per cent of both men and women among the members, apart from members appointed on the nomination of outside bodies, the Minister should set out in a memorandum for the Government his or her plans for achieving the 40 per cent target within four years.
Bodies nominating persons to State boards have been asked to follow the 40 per cent gender balance policy. Indeed, in the case of the county enterprise boards, the Minister for Enterprise and Employment made a strong request to the nominating bodies to comply with the guidelines issued by the Government. In the circumstances it is disappointing in the extreme that many local authorities, trade unions and employers' bodies failed to comply with the request.
The Minister for Enterprise and Employment has indicated that casual vacancies arising on these boards will, generally, be filled by women.
Will the Minister accept that the Government commitment to a 40 per cent gender balance on State boards has proved an absolute flop and that what he is now presenting as a way of ameliorating the problem is a fumble? Early on in his ministry, when I said I believed there was no difference between this Government and the previous one regarding equality, the Minister pinpointed the Government commitment to a 40 per cent gender balance. Will he agree that that commitment has no basis in reality? We have seen it tested in the county enterprise boards; the county managers effectively ignored the recommendations of the Minister and acted in the traditional way which means that women are yet again excluded, apart from an instant rearguard action carried out by the Minister for Employment and Enterprise. That simply is not good enough. Will the Minister accept that, if this is a commitment worth establishing, it should be done through legislation? If it is not worth establishing through legislation, will the Government please shut up about it and stop pretending that it is committed to a 40 per cent gender balance without delivering?
I do not accept Deputy McManus's comments for the simple reason that they are not in accordance with the facts. The Government has adopted the position broadly recommended in the second commission's report in regard to the appointment of women members to boards by the Government. However, the question of appointments by outside bodies such as the trade unions, local authorities and employers is a matter which, for the moment, rests in their hands. One would have expected that at the request of the Minister for Enterprise and Employment, they would have complied with the Government guidelines adopted by the Government itself. It is regrettable that those outside nominating bodies did not do so on that occasion. In an attempt to partly redress the imbalance thereby constituted in the county enterprise boards, the Minister for Enterprise and Employment increased the membership of those boards from the intended 12 to 14 by the addition of two women in each case. I take this opportunity of appealing again to those outside nominating bodies when they are making nominations, as they called upon to do constantly across the spectrum of virtually all State boards, to bear in mind the Government's requirement to comply with the gender quota broadline direction. I repeat that if it emerges that they are failing to do so, legislation would certainly have to be considered. That should not be necessary in the case of responsible bodies like the trade unions, employers' organisations and local authorities who ought to accept and comply with the new policy adopted by the Government in its own appointments. It would be regrettable if one were forced to bring in legislation to compel those bodies to do so.
I am sure the Minister agrees that for years the employers, the trade unions etc., have been talking about their equal opportunity initiatives and, to some degree, claiming success for them. However, when it comes to the crunch, they have not delivered the goods. I suggest that the Minister needs to do much more than appeal to them. The question of local authorities developing equal opportunities policies that are really effective also needs to be looked at. How does the Minister intend to take this further with the social partners? Is he meeting them to discuss it and asking them to re-evaluate the equal opportunities policies they have had to date, given this dismal failure of the county enterprise boards?
I intend to take all possible appropriate steps, short of legislation, to induce them to comply with the Government's directive on gender balance. I had a meeting with the Irish Congress of Trade Unions on the subject yesterday and made the point very forcefully to them. I will be having meetings and communications with other nominating bodies so that the Government's position on the matter is made quite clear. I would expect responsible bodies to comply with the requirements of the Government, clearly signalled by the report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women of which they were all constituent members and to whose report, on these very questions, they subscribed. Having subscribed when serving on the commission to these notions, it is totally unacceptable that they do not put those requirements into practice themselves. It would obviously be much better if that could be achieved on a voluntary consensus basis rather than by legislation. However, if all else fails, legislation will have to be considered.
Will the Minister not agree that the Government made an absolute mess of appointments to the county enterprise boards and that it was a mistake not to have retained the power to refuse to accept nominations to boards where a gender balance did not exist? Will he not agree that all advances in the area of protecting women's rights in relation to equal treatment, equal pay and in the area of family law and marriage have only come about through legislation and that until the Government enacts legislation to ensure gender balance in State appointed bodies in practice it will not come about?
I do not agree with the Deputy's comments that the Government made any mess of the appointments to the county enterprise boards. The Government made its appointments in accordance with its directives. It impressed on what should be responsible organisations, such as employers, trade unions and local authorities, and requested many times that they comply with that requirement. It is regrettable that they have not done so. The Government's displeasure on the issue has and will continue to be made known to them by other Ministers and by me in a forceful manner. I would be hopeful that the message will get through in respect of future appointments.
Those are organisations that regularly make appointments to State bodies. Vacancies arise and appointments are regularly made by the unions, employers and so on under the ambit of Ministers. Hopefully the gender balance message will get through to those organisations and the necessity for legislation will be avoided. It would be a poor reflection on those bodies who were represented on the Second Commission on the Status of Women if it is necessary to apply the stick to them. One would like to believe in this day and age that they would regard gender equality as something to be tackled and accepted on a voluntary rather than a compulsory basis.
Regardless of gender equality representation, the enterprise boards had a 40 per cent representation by Fianna Fáil members.
Members would agree that 40 per cent gender balance is desirable, but we must be realistic. Regarding the composition of local authorities, in the next election many women may be interested in joining local authorities and many more women may be available to take up posts. The 40 per cent gender balance is a target that will be achieved during a period of time.
There are women members of local authorities who have great skill, knowledge and ability and who would have been very capable of fulfilling necessary roles in the county enterprise boards. If the local authorities and other nominating bodies had given attention to the gender balance on those boards sought by the Government, that balance could have been achieved. I would be hopeful that the necessary mental thought processes of members of nominating bodies will come around to the recommendations of the report of the Second Commission on the Status of Women and that we will achieve the necessary gender balance on a progressive basis.
What form of communication did the Minister's Department have with the nominating bodies to the county enterprise boards prior to the submission of nominations? Considering that the nominations did not meet the required gender balance, how can the Minister assure the House that any measures he can take at this stage other than the introduction of legislation will bring about the required gender balance?
The communications in connection with the county enterprise boards were made with the Minister for Enterprise and Employment, who had responsibility for the composition of those boards. I consulted with my colleague the Minister for Enterprise and Employment, Deputy Quinn, on the issue and he communicated with the boards. I cannot guarantee what outside nominating bodies will do, but the views of the Government have and will continue to be made known to those nominating bodies in a forceful manner, but we must wait and see whether they comply. If in the future it becomes clear that they are not reasonably complying, then appropriate action would have to be taken. However, I hope that will not be necessary.
The Minister's Department did absolutely nothing to ensure that the 40 per cent gender balance was achieved and would he not agree that his Department was negligent?
Would the Minister not accept that it is a privilege for nominating bodies to participate on State boards established by Ministers, that it is not impossible to ask those bodies to nominate two people, a man and a woman, and that the final selection be made by the Minister when the balance has been worked out? The suggestion that women are not available is ludicrous. The women are available but they are not represented. New boards will be coming on stream and a new State board will be set up to deal with the Animal Remedies Bill. Will the Minister ensure that no new State boards are established until this matter is resolved?
Boards must be established and they have tasks to carry out. The Government, Ministers and nominating bodies have responsibilities. It is our function that those bodies comply with the Government directive and we will carry out that function with dedication and forcefulness. Regarding the board referred to by Deputy McManus, I will bring that matter to the attention of the appropriate Minister concerned.
The Minister must make it happen.
A Private Notice Question on yesterday's kidnapping of a bank official and his family, addressed to the Minister for Justice by Deputy Gay Mitchell, has been allowed.
