It is proposed to take Nos. 1, 7, 14, 5 and 8. It is also proposed notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders that: 1. business shall be interrupted not later than 12 midnight tonight; 2. Nos. 1, 7 and 14 shall be decided without debate; 3. Second Stage of No. 5 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 10.30 p.m.; and 4. the proceedings on No. 8 shall be brought to a conclusion not later than 12 midnight and the following arrangements shall apply in relation to the debate; (i) the speech of the Minister and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Progressive Democrat Party and the Technical Group shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; (ii) the speech of each other Member called on shall not exceed ten minutes; and (iii) the Minister shall be called on not later than 11.50 p.m. to make a speech in reply not exceeding ten minutes. Private Members' Business shall be No. 24, motion 13.
Order of Business.
There are four matters to be put to the House. Is it agreed that business shall be interrupted not later than 12.00 midnight? Agreed. Is it agreed that Nos. 1, 7 and 14 shall be decided without debate? Agreed. Is the proposal in regard to item No. 5 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal in regard to No. 8 agreed? Agreed.
There are two issues I wish to raise on the Order of Business. Last Thursday, on the Order of Business, the Taoiseach made an entirely inappropriate comment about women and, having considered the matter during the weekend, I would like to ask if he would take this opportunity to apologise both to me personally, as the comment was made to me, and to the women to whom he referred.
That matter is not relevant to the Order of Business and I cannot allow the Deputy to raise it. She indicated she had another matter she wished to raise. That issue is not in order now.
Perhaps the Taoiseach might take the opportunity to make such an apology. Arising from the telephone calls the Taoiseach had today with the British Prime Minister, John Major, will he inform us if another meeting has been arranged and whether he considers progress towards peace is possible before Christmas?
Again, Deputy, that is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
The country is waiting to hear what happened today arising from those telephone calls. If we cannot raise this issue in Parliament where else can we raise it?
There are ways of raising it but this is not the time.
The Taoiseach may want to comment.
Our questions today relating to Northern Ireland were disallowed. We are keen to hear the Taoiseach who may want to say something.
In response to the first question raised by Deputy Owen, she chose to take offence when none was intended either to her or any other woman. I hope she accepts that that is the case.
We accept that apology.
I hope the Taoiseach is man enough to say he is sorry.
Order, please.
In response to the second question, I have had a number of telephone calls today and I expect that there will be more later in the afternoon. The peace process is still on course.
Will the Taoiseach tell the House, in view of his well known empathy with women, when the proposed Bill dealing with allowances for Members which is scheduled to be taken this week will be published and circulated? Will he give an undertaking that it will not be taken this Thursday until such time as the Department of Finance and the staff who work for Deputies have had an opportunity to consult on its provisions?
I understand it has been agreed between the party Whips to take this Bill on Thursday. It will be published tomorrow morning.
Arising from the Taoiseach's reply to my first question on the Order of Business, I would have thought he would have been much more gracious. I do not know whether it was an apology but, regardless of whether he decided to raise the issue because he thought he offended me, the reality is that he made a remark which was offensive to many inside and outside the House.
I ask the Deputy not to pursue that matter any further.
If the Taoiseach had apologised on the day the issue would have been dead and gone but his apology was less than gracious——
I want to call Deputy Harney.
——he could do better and perhaps some of his colleagues will assist him.
The Minister for Equality and Law Reform might have something to say about it.
: Mea culpa.
Deputy Harney rose.
None of the Taoiseach's women Deputies——
Deputy Harney is in possession; Deputy Owen should desist.
Apart from Deputy O'Rourke, none of the Taoiseach's women Ministers is sitting behind him to give him support.
Deputy O'Rourke is a Minister of State.
I acknowledge that.
Deputy Harney without interruption, please.
In view of the fact that four questions I tabled to the Taoiseach in relation to Northern Ireland and his meeting last week with the British Prime Minister were ruled out of order on the basis that a debate was due to be held on Thursday, will the Taoiseach agree that his proposal that an all-Ireland convention be held would be nothing more than a Nationalist convention and would lead to the Unionists being alienated further from the Nationalists on this island? Will the Taoiseach, before he suggests this in public, do the other parties the courtesy of speaking with them——
I am sure the Deputy will find another way to raise that matter.
I cannot find another way as the questions I tabled were ruled out of order.
They were disallowed.
This is obviously not the time, Deputy.
May I ask the Taoiseach——
Unless the Deputy has something else in mind; it is not in order to raise that issue at this time.
If it is not in order to raise it by way of question I have no other way of raising it. Will the Taosieach agree to speak with——
I am sorry, but I must ask the Deputy to cease.
On a point of order, may I ask the Taoiseach if he would agree to speak with the leaders of the other parties in this House on this matter before he goes public?
The Deputy has been given some considerable latitude.
I am not getting anywhere. It is unreasonable that Deputies were not allowed raise legitimate questions today.
I would like to raise two issues. While I do not want to prolong the matter, I suggest to the Taoiseach, in the interests of this House, that he offer an apology for what took place last Thursday——
Does the Deputy want to raise something relevant to the Order of Business?
I am not pursuing that issue any further; the Taoiseach's approach is regrettable. Before this House adjourns we will have an Adjournment Debate during which a variety of issues will be discussed. Will the Taoisech, in advance of that debate, consider making time available so that both he and Members of the Opposition can address, by way of statements, the up-to-date position in relation to Northern Ireland?
I understand that statements are to be made on Thursday.
But only by the Leaders.
As the Taoiseach knows, he has the support of Members in seeking peace in Northern Ireland but, in the light of recent comments by him, there is growing concern that it is Sinn Fein's perspective that they have the Armalite in one hand and the Taoiseach in the other?
That is a disgrace.
That matter cannot be raised now.
I would like to raise three matters. First, if statements are to be made on Thursday morning on the position in Northern Ireland, which would be welcome, the debate on the Bill due to be taken on Thursday would be compressed. This Bill will be published tomorrow which is not in accordance with the Taoiseach's wish that Bills should be published at least two weeks before they are taken in the House. On a number of occasions recently Dáil committees requested certain personnel to attend as witnesses to give evidence and information. In this regard will the Bill which will make it compulsory for witnesses to attend be published during the Christmas recess?
That legislation is in the course of preparation and will be published as soon as it is completed, I hope during the Christmas recess as I indicated to the Deputy last week. In relation to the other Bill mentioned by the Deputy, I understand it has been agreed between the Whips that it will be taken. I am sure they will decide how much time is required and that there will be late sittings.
It has been suggested a number of times that statements are to be made on Thursday on the Summit and, presumably, the Taoiseach's discussions with Mr. Major in regard to Northern Ireland but no official notification has been received in my office. Questions that I tabled in relation to the Summit were disallowed. I was not told the reason but I must assume they were disallowed on the basis that it was the intention to have statements. Does the Taoiseach intend to allow questions either during the course of or following the statements, as I do not accept statements constitute an adequate way of dealing with the issues that arise from the Taoiseach's meeting with Mr. Major?
I will follow the well-established practice in this House in relation to statements. The Government is pursuing a balanced joint declaration with the British Government. It is not true to say that we have not been in contact with some of the highest people in the Unionist population — we have. We would like to do much more but others chose not to have such official meetings. That is not to say that we do not know what their concerns are or that they have suspicions. These are being taken into account. I think when Deputies hear the statement they will agree that it is not one way or the other.
Last week when inaccurate information was given to the House during Question Time I pursued the matter during the Adjournment Debate when I asked that you raise the fact with the Committee on Procedure and Privileges that inaccurate information was prepared and read out in the House. What progress has been made? The matter relates to a case of alleged fraud.
I will endeavour to do that, Deputy.
In response to various questions in regard to the Summit and Northern Ireland the Taoiseach has offered us information. May I seek clarification? When he refers to a statement is he referring to the statement that he will make on Thursday or to the statement that he expects to work out between himself and Mr. Major?
In answer to an earlier question I said that I have had a number of telephone conversations with the British Prime Minister, John Major, today and expect to have another with him in the next hour or two. It may be that we will conclude the statement successfully; I cannot say any more than that. In my statement on Thursday I will report to the House on the outcome of the Summit in Brussels at the weekend and my meeting with the British Prime Minister on the margins of the Summit.
The Taoiseach said he will have further conversations with the British Prime Minister. Is there a possibility that the statements on Thursday may not take place or may not be as full as they might be if the conversations referred to are not completed? Is the Taoiseach giving the House an assurance that he will inform the House of progress then and again on Friday if changes are happening so fast? He should recognise the support he has been getting from Deputy John Bruton and his party, from all the other Opposition parties and attempt, when we raise these questions on the Order of Business, to be as helpful as possible and not always assume that there is some other motivation behind the questions. We all share his desire to bring about a cessation of violence and a resumption of the talks.
The Deputy knows there are limits to what can be raised on the Order of Business.
One of the features of recent discussions has been the lack of briefing of Opposition leaders by the Taoiseach. Would the Taoiseach consider it worthwhile and in the national interest to brief the Opposition leaders privately, even at this late stage?
I appreciate the support of the Opposition parties in the very delicate operation in which the Government is engaged, and I will give this House maximum information tomorrow or any time I can. However, this is not the place for detailed negotiation on a delicate matter. I would remind Deputy Mitchell that a previous agreement had to be dealt with in a similar manner, that is, the Anglo-Irish Agreement. It was successfully carried through and there was no insistence at that time for information from the Government every day.
(Limerick East): That is because the Taoiseach's party was opposing it. Ask Deputy Spring.
Is it likely that the Taoiseach will be meeting the British Prime Minister before the statements on Thursday?
I do not know.
Will the Taoiseach take the opportunity before the Christmas recess to make a specific statement on the GATT talks?
Now is not the time for that.
It is a very important matter, but the Taoiseach has nothing to say. It is unbelievable that he does not know what is going on.
I said twice that I will make a statement on Thursday.
I am sorry, I did not hear the Taoiseach. On Thursday he is going to make a specific statement.
A Cheann Comhairle, will the Taoiseach comment on the reported discussions between the former, Minister, Dr. John O'Connell, and the UDA, and can he assure the House that it was not about lottery funding? Is the Taoiseach aware that there is no branch of the UDA in Dublin South Central?
A Deputy
I would not be so sure.
Has the Taoiseach any knowledge of this, a Cheann Comhairle?
A Deputy
It would be a joke if it were not so serious.