Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 10 May 1994

Vol. 442 No. 5

Private Notice Questions. - County Clare Tragedies.

We come now to deal with Private Notice Questions from a number of Members to the Minister for Justice concerning the recent tragic events in Clare and South Galway. I understand that the Minister proposes to reply to the questions together.

Before calling on Members to cite their questions I must remind the House that there is a real possibility of serious criminal charges being brought and that, under the revised sub judice rule, there is an onus on Members to avoid comment which might prejudice the outcome of proceedings. Accordingly, Members should exercise discretion and, if possible also avoid making reference to persons outside the House by name or so as to be identifiable. I shall be calling on Members in the order in which they submitted their questions.

asked the Minister for Justice if she will make a statement on the murders of two adults and a child in County Clare; if she will outline the events leading up to the murders, including the investigations carried out by the Garda Síochána; and if she is satisfied that the full resources of the State have been used to pursue those responsible.

asked the Minister for Justice if, in the light of the considerable public concern about the adequacy of the Garda investigation into the disappearance of three people in the Clare/South Galway area and the subsequent discovery of the dead bodies, she has received any report from the Garda authorities; if she intends to request the Garda authorities to carry out any review of the Garda operation; and if she will make a statement on the matter.

asked the Minister for Justice the main findings of the report of senior Garda into the abduction and murder of Imelda and Liam Riney and Father Joseph Walsh.

asked the Minister for Justice the action, if any, taken by the Garda in the murder of Imelda Riney, her three-year-old son Liam and Father Joseph Walsh; if she has satisfied herself that the response by the Garda was adequate and timely; and if she will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take these four Private Notice Questions together.

I would like to offer most sincere sympathies on my behalf and on behalf of the Government to the family of Ms Riney on the tragic loss of Imelda and her son Liam, and to the family, fellow priests and to the Bishop of Clonfert, Dr. Kirby, on the tragic death of Fr. Joe Walsh following the extraordinary and horrific events of the past week in Clare and South Galway. It is a loss that has touched everyone in the country, as we were drawn together in a communal spirit of hope and prayer that they would be found alive, despite the growing fears. Sadly, it was not to be. Instead we are left with the deep shock and immense difficulty of making sense out of an awful and bizarre tragedy.

In the course of my statement I will be giving the House an account of the facts in my possession concerning the deaths which are the subject of these Private Notice Questions. Before I do this, I want to say something concerning the manner in which these events are portrayed publicly — by the media, in various statements that have been made by members of the public and so on.

I have already called for restraint all round in relation to the presentation of these events. For the avoidance of any doubt on the matter, I want to make it absolutely clear that, in calling for restraint, neither I nor the Government is suggesting that the media or anybody else must somehow be muzzled. It is a fact, as I witnessed for myself last night when the remains of Father Joe Walsh were brought to the church in Eyrecourt, that the public at large have been shocked by these appalling events, that people are grieving on a scale rarely seen and that there is a sense of helplessness, a feeling of inability to comprehend or cope with the awfulness of what happened in Clare over the past week or so.

It is perfectly understandable that commentators and the media should reflect this. However, there is the very real danger that in the midst of all that is said, comments will emerge and opinions will be publicly expressed which could have a result that would be the exact opposite to what everybody here and all good people outside this House would want, and that is that a person would be made amenable for these crimes.

Our courts, very rightly, set a high standard when it comes to deciding what does or does not constitute fair procedures. We have ample evidence that the courts here — and indeed in other Jurisdictions also — will attach considerable weight to a defence based on the proposition that the prospect of a fair trial has been jeopardised by publicity occuring at the time of the events leading to a prosecution. It is on this ground alone that I considered it my responsibility to call for restraint. I do so again so that Deputies will be aware of my concern and of my precise reason for concern on that score.

The point I have just made is highly relevant when it comes to providing the House with a chronology of events. Deputy Gay Mitchell has requested that I make a statement on the events leading up to the murders. I am sure he and everybody else in this House will understand that if I, as Minister for Justice, mention certain events of which I am aware and of which others are no doubt aware also, which have to do with the movement or behaviour of any identifiable person, there is the grave risk that this would be seen as coming very close to authoritative confirmation that that person's guilt or involvement in the deaths is already an established fact. No such fact is established at this time, no charges have been brought against any person but, as everybody knows, a full Garda investigation is under way.

Turning to the chronology of the events themselves, what I have at this time is a preliminary report from the Garda Commissioner, whom I have also met to discuss the matter. The information I am now giving the House is based on the Commissioner's report.

At about 12.30 p.m. on Friday, 29 April the late Ms Imelda Riney was seen driving her car approximately one mile from her home at Whitegate, along the Whitegate-Woodford Road. She had a passenger in the car. This sighting by a witness was reported to the Garda some four days later on Tuesday, 3 May.

At about 4.24 p.m. on Saturday, 30 April a report was received at Loughrea Garda Station that a car was on fire some miles into a forest. The Garda discovered the car that same day. It was completely destroyed and had no number plates. The chassis number was, in the words of the Garda report, "very difficult to bring up" which delayed identification of the vehicle.

On the same Saturday a person near Eyrecourt found a front number plate and bumper of a car in a gateway leading to a field. The number plate was from Ms Riney's missing car. This discovery was reported to the Garda some six days later on the afternoon of the following Friday, this is 6 May.

At about 11.00 a.m. on Sunday, I may the late Ms Riney's husband, Val Ballance, reported his wife's absence to the Garda in Scarriff. He agreed, following discussion with the Garda, to contact friends and associates in the hope that she had stayed with them.

At 3.00 p.m. on Monday, 2 May Mr. Ballance reported at Mountshannon Garda Station that he had not succeeded, since his previous visit to the Garda, in locating his wife and three-year-old son. He also reported that his wife's car was missing.

Shortly after 10.00 p.m. on the same day details of the missing persons and car were circulated to all stations from the communications room at Ennis Garda Station.

On Wednesday, 4 May the car which had been found burnt near Loughrea on 30 April was formally identified as that of Ms Riney.

At about 7.30 p.m. on Thursday, 5 May the late Fr. Joe Walsh was reported missing to the Garda by Fr. Glynn P.P., at Eyrecourt. The information was that he was last seen at about 11.55 p.m. on 3 May.

At about 11.14 p.m. on Thursday night, a report to the effect that Fr. Walsh was missing circulated to all stations from Galway Garda communications room.

At about 1.00 a.m. on Friday morning, 6 May, Fr. Walsh's car was found burning at Williamstown Harbour, Whitegate, by a local person. The Garda were called and identified the car.

At about 7.45 p.m. on Saturday, 7 May a body was discovered by a forester in the woods at Cregg Wood, Whitegate. The gardaí were notified and the body was later identified as that of Fr. Walsh.

Finally, and very sadly, at about 12.05 p.m. on Sunday, 8 May the bodies of a woman and child were found in Cregg Wood, Whitegate, by a team of searchers headed by a garda, in the vicinity of the area where Fr. Walsh's body had been found. The bodies were later identified as those of Imelda Riney and her son Liam.

I am conscious of the fact that various aspects of the Garda handling of this case have been the subject of unfavourable comment and I have already indicated publicly that the fact that criticisms have been made is the subject of concern to me.

On this issue there is need for care and for fair procedures. It is standard practice for the Garda, following major events of this kind, to investigate the procedures followed and the handling of the case and, where lessons are learned, to take the appropriate action. This will happen on this occasion also and I will receive a full report on the outcome. At that time I will make an assessment as to what further action may be required and I will make my conclusions on that issue known to this House.

Finally, I should of course explain that the investigation of the general handling of the case by the gardaí will not commence immediately. The immediate task of the gardaí at this point is to complete their investigation of the case in hand and endeavour to bring a person to justice. Nothing can be allowed to get in the way of that task and I am sure everybody here will wish to see the task successfully concluded.

In view of the number of Deputies who have tabled questions perhaps one round of supplementaries will suffice.

I do not accept that would be satisfactory. This is a serious matter.

The Deputy does not have to accept it.

I do not have to accept it, I am an elected Member of this House.

It is a matter for the Chair, Deputy, so do not tell me what is acceptable.

You will not tell me, on an important matter of public interest, what I shall do in this House.

The Deputy has the floor.

I will ask many questions concerning this matter. I will put a number of supplementaries at the same time and I ask the Minister to be good enough to note them and reply to them.

That is why the Chair is giving the Deputy the opportunity to do so.

I am happy to put questions on this important matter without your assistance. Will the Minister say if any suspect in these matters was interviewed by the gardaí before the abductions and murders and was that suspect arrested? Was a report compiled by three Assistant Garda Commissioners following the O'Grady kidnapping? If so, did they make recommendations to be implemented in the event of future abductions and were those recommendations swiftly put into action in this case? Why do rural communities have to depend on speaking into green boxes while the Garda force is 500 persons under strength? Will she agree that gardaí on the beat are far better for intelligence gathering and would, in cases like this, be of inestimable value? Will the Garda reply to the criticism which has been levelled at them, particularly by the local community? Will any person be charged as an accessory in these cases and what other investigations has the Minister in mind in relation to these murders?

In relation to the final part of the Deputy's supplementary asking whether any person will be charged as an accessory, obviously Deputy Mitchell will appreciate that, as the investigation is ongoing, it is not possible for me or any member of the Garda Síochána to indicate either a positive or a negative answer. The question as to whether the Garda will reply to criticism, is a matter for the Garda themselves. When there are tragic and horrific events, as we witnessed during the past week, there is normally an immediate investigation by the Garda Commissioner. I have a preliminary report on the events relating to the last number of days. The Commissioner is compiling his final report and until that is available I will not be in a position to give further information.

The rural community policing policy was introduced in September 1991 the basis of which was to get gardaí out of Garda stations where they answered the telephone and so on into the community, mixing with members of the community and getting to know them. Since the scheme was set up two reviews have taken place and my understanding from the Garda authorities is that both were positive.

A false impression was given inadvertently by a broadcaster on a television programme last night. It was indicated that when a person calls to a Garda station involved in rural policing, after closing hours, and speaks to the green man, their message is being recorded. That is not the case, they are speaking to headquarters and to a garda at the other end of the line.

An investigation was carried out on the procedures following the O'Grady kidnapping. The recommendations, following that investigation, were made by a Deputy Commissioner of the Garda Síochána and my information is that they were implemented.

I did not quite understand the Deputy's first supplementary in which he asked whether any suspect was interviewed before the murders were committed. Is the Deputy taking about somebody who may be a suspect now?

The answer is "no".

I join the Minister in expressing sympathy to the families of the bereaved and their colleagues.

Perhaps the Deputy would take note of the fact that there will be one round of supplementaries.

I join Deputy Mitchell in expressing my concern about that because this is a very serious matter and one of major public concern. It is inappropriate to restrict Members of the House to one round of supplementaries on this important matter and I ask you to review your opinion on that. Can the Minister give any explanation, given the sophisticated modern telecommunications technology now available, as to why there were delays between the location of a car near Loughrea, a report of a missing person in Eyrecourt, the discovery of a mudguard elsewhere and putting this information together? Has she made specific inquiries to the Garda authorities concerning the delays? Second, since the Minister said she would be reporting to the House following completion of her investigations, is it her intention to publish any report which is made available to her arising from those investigations? Third, what reassurance can the Minister give to people living in isolated rural areas, many of whom are now terrified — and feel vulnerable — as a result of the events of the past week because of lack of policing? Does she accept there is no substitute for having police in local areas who are visible, familiar with what is happening, know the movements of various people and who can anticipate and, perhaps, prevent this type of crime from occurring in the first place?

I agree there is no substitute for visibility of police. Since I became Minister for Justice I have been saying that and it applies to rural as well as urban areas. The basis for introducing the community policing policy in 1991 was to make the police more visible within the communities than they had been heretofore. At that time the Garda authorities felt that too much Garda time was spent manning a Garda station when his or her time could be better spent, on behalf of the community, out among the community, involving themselves in local community activities, getting to know the people, gathering information and getting to know the movements of people, locals or otherwise.

I am not ruling out the publication of any report which I may get. I would have to consider whether information in it would prejudice any ongoing investigation at the time. I have made a commitment to report to this House as soon as I have a full report in relation to all these matters. I cannot explain the delays between finding the burnt out car and the number plates and bumper of the car by a local person. It would appear that local person was not aware that a car with that number plate was missing. If the person had been aware I am sure the number plates would have been taken immediately to the local Garda station where the incident room had been set up.

I think all aspects of the Garda handling of the case are matters that the Garda Commissioner has to investigate in the first instance. Based on the results of his investigation I have to make a decision on where we go from there.

I thank the Minister for her response and for her briefing earlier of the Members who tabled questions on the matter. Would she agree that we should all focus on the prospect of a successful prosecution and that the wider policy issues already mentioned today can wait at least two or three weeks until there is further progress in the pre-trial stage? Does she further agree that adverse prejudicial pre-trial publicity is a very real danger and that she was correct when she emphasised the need for caution? Bearing that in mind, I will confine my question to a technical point of law.

Will she confirm whether a person charged and remanded in custody in respect of one incident can be arrested and detained for further questioning under section 30 of the Offences Against the State Act, 1939, in respect of another incident, or whether being on remand in custody on one charge under the Offences Against The State Act, 1939, makes one immune from interrogation in respect of any other suspected crime?

My priority, and I am sure that of everybody in this House and outside, is that the Garda make a successful prosecution. Any other investigation which the Garda Commissioner needs to conduct will have to await the successful prosecution. I welcome the support of Deputies Mitchell, Gilmore and O'Donnell for that procedure.

On the question of whether a person on remand in custody can be charged with another offence, my information is that — and please do not ask me to put my hand on the Bible and say it is correct — this could be done; obviously I will check the matter further and come back to the Deputy.

I may have misled Deputy Mitchell when I responded to his question on whether any suspect had been interviewed before the murders. Neither I nor the Garda could say whether any suspect was interviewed because we do not know who the suspect might be or if somebody were to be charged we do not know at this stage who that person might be. I could not, therefore, put my hand on my heart and say that somebody who might well be charged might not have been interviewed by the Garda some time in the past.

We all look on this as a national tragedy. I come from Golden, the home of Fr. Joseph Walsh, and as a relative I have experienced the family's devastation and the grief and sadness of the local community. The question we ask is whether one, if not all, the tragedies could have been avoided. Having listened to the Minister's report, a crucial element was the delay by the public in reporting matters.

Why was no public appeal made on radio or television alerting the people to inform the Garda of sightings or unusual activities immediately the Garda were informed of Ms Riney and her son's absence? Who co-ordinated the immediate investigation after Ms Riney and her son's absence was reported to the Garda? There is an urgent need for a report on the tragedies which may offer some consolation to the members of the families concerned.

As of now I cannot give a definitive answer for the delay in reporting the incidents and the reasons for the Garda not making a public appeal as I am awaiting, as is the Commissioner, a report from the local divisional officers concerned.

Rev. Fr. Glynn, the parish priest at Eyrecourt, notified the Garda on Thursday evening that Fr. Joseph Walsh, his curate, was missing and until that time the investigation was being handled by the Garda divisional headquarters in County Clare. As Eyrecourt is in the Galway west divisional headquarters area, the Galway west divisional officer became involved and because there were two divisions then involved in the investigation, Chief Superindendent Jim McHugh was drafted in from Tipperary to oversee all the investigations and direct inquiries.

That concludes the questions for today.

On a point of order, I do not think this is a matter which should be made contentious and I am sure the Minister will be happy to answer the remaining questions.

That is a different approach from the Deputy's approach a few moments ago.

It certainly is. Having had an opportunity to reflect I think the Chair will agree that both our approaches might be a little different.

May I on behalf of the Fine Gael Party join with the Minister in extending the sympathy of all Members of the House to both families and colleagues of all concerned. The Minister did not respond when I asked what other investigations or inquiries will be made in this matter. I understand the report of the Garda Commissioner was discussed at Cabinet this morning. Would she indicate if she has given the House all the facts? Why did it take five days to identify Miss Riney's car? Was any effort made on local radio, for example, to alert people to the fact that the car was missing and to ask for information and assistance?

Does the Minister intend reconstituting the murder squad, would the involvement of such a squad in an investigation of this type have been more efficient?

I will deal with the last question first. To reconstitute the murder squad would primarily be an operational matter for the Garda Commissioner. In advance of his full investigation into the facts surrounding this case, it would be too early to give a commitment on structural changes. On the question of the delay in identifying Ms Riney's car, I said that when the car was found in a completely burned out state it was very hard — to use the words of the Garda report —"to bring up the chassis number" and the person who had found the registration number did not think it urgent enough, because of the lack of publicity surrounding it, to bring it to the attention of the Garda. If that had been done perhaps things might have moved more quickly.

Yesterday I received a preliminary report from the Commissioner and it was discussed at Cabinet this morning. I have not given the House all the facts, as Deputy Mitchell knows; I have given information to the Cabinet and to Deputies Gay Mitchell, O'Donnell, Theresa Ahearn and Gilmore which I am not in a position, because of the ongoing inquiries into this case, to make public because, as the Leas-Cheann Comhairle said, and I agree with him, they could be prejudicial to a successful prosecution. I regret very much that I cannot give some of the report which I gave to the Deputies.

Will there be an inquiry?

In my initial response and perhaps in response to one of the supplementary questions, I said that the Garda Commissioner's report and investigation into the matter is what I need first and in light of that I will have to make decisions.

My question refers to the co-operation, or lack of it, between the Garda and local people. Will the Minister comment on reports that the efforts of local people to get involved in the search for the missing people, in particular their attempts to identify, as it turns out correctly, the location where the missing persons might be found, were repudiated by the Garda? Has the Minister made any inquiries of the Garda authorities about that aspect of the case and can she provide any clarification?

In my discussions with the Garda Commissioner today I raised all aspects of concern to Members and particularly to people living in the Eyrecourt, Mountshannon, Scarriff and Whitegate areas of County Clare. I would be concerned if it is proved that there was a lack of co-operation in relation to any aspect of this case between the Garda and local people given that the Garda depend to a large extent on and need the support of the local community. It has in the past and will continue in the future to look for the support of the community in carrying out investigations into crime. I raised this aspect with the Garda Commissioner and it will form part of his report to me.

I think the Minister misunderstood me. I am aware that if a person is remanded in custody on one charge they are not immune from further charges in respect of another crime. Would such a person be immune from interrogation in respect of another crime? Will the Minister give us a guarantee that when the time is right a full inquiry will be carried out into the procedures followed in the investigation from the earliest to the final stages?

I will have to come back to the Deputy in regard to her first question. On the question of carrying out a full inquiry at the right time I have ruled nothing in or out. The primary objective is to secure a successful prosecution and to ensure that the Garda Commissioner will complete his investigation as quickly as is feasible. Following receipt of his report I will make a decision as to what further action I need to take.

Does the Minister agree it is very difficult to accept the Garda did not use local radio to alert the public to unusual activity and that if this had been done the Garda might have been notified that the number plates had been found in time to prevent the death of Fr. Walsh?

I share the concern expressed by the Deputy and all other Deputies about the delays which appear to have happened in the course of this investigation. At the beginning there was some doubt as to whether the late Imelda Riney was missing or had gone to visit relatives or friends. It was some days before her husband, Val Balance, reported that she and his son were missing. This, however, does not answer the questions that the Deputy, all other Members and the public are asking and for which the Garda Commissioner will have answers for me.

That disposes of questions for today.

Barr
Roinn