Vol. 450 No. 2
35 Miss Harney asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform the precise manner in which it is proposed to ensure that policy to effect gender balance on State boards is more effective; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4880/95]
45 Mr. E. Byrne asked the Minister for Equality and Law Reform the progress, if any, that has been made regarding the commitment that 40 per cent of appointments to State boards would be female; the proposals, if any, he has to speed up progress in this area; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4763/95]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 35 and 45 together.
The situation in relation to women's representation on State boards is that currently 23.6 per cent of the total serving membership are women and 28.9 per cent of direct Government nominees are women compared to 15 per cent and 17 per cent respectively in 1992. I monitor the progress being made in appointing women to State boards and I am aware of the need to make further progress in this area. I am examining ways of making the policy even more effective.
We appear to be on a sliding timescale in this regard. When does the Minister propose to have this matter made more effective? Will he cast his mind back to the time of the appointment of the county enterprise boards when, despite the fact that a directive stated 40 per cent of their membership should be women, many of them did not fill that quota? The Minister then responsible, Deputy Quinn, dealt with the matter by appointing, say, two women to some of those boards to increase the percentage of female membership. What he should have done was send back the names of the nominees to the nominating bodies and request them to resubmit a list with the correct representation. Does the Minister agree that would be a better way of dealing with the matter?
The question of appointments by nominating bodies is always a matter of concern and all possible pressure is brought to bear on such bodies to ensure that the Government's objective of 40 per cent female representation on State bodies is maintained. Of course the primary responsibility rests on Governments to do that. I thank Deputy Keogh for asking me to cast my mind back to the establishment of the county enterprise boards. Will she cast her mind back to the appointment and composition of the Legal Aid Board established by a Fianna Fáil-Progressive Democrats Government? Members will recall that 13 appointments were made to that board and the 13 were men.
If only I had been a member of Cabinet.
The Deputy's party was party to that decision. As will be noted from my reply, progress has been made in this area. For example, in the case of direct Government nominees, the numbers have increased from 17 per cent in 1992 to 28.9 per cent. When these boards are replaced gender balance representation will improve. When I replace the Legal Aid Board in a month or two the appointment of 13 males to it will not be repeated. A minimum of 40 per cent of the new Legal Aid Board, which I will appoint, will be women.
Many of us do not believe in a forced gender equity balance which the Minister and the Government espouse. I do not wish to denigrate the Minister, but this is nonsense, social engineering at its worst and old fashioned. The prime example is the Cabinet. Two of its 15 members are women, yet the Government forces other bodies and organisations to adhere to the 40 per cent gender balance representation. The Minister, Deputy Bhreathnach, forced the boards of the regional technical colleges to maintain a 40 per cent female representation on their boards, yet she basks in the glory of there being two women in Cabinet. What is the Minister's view on the Government's effort to appoint two females to a Cabinet of 15?
I hold the Deputy in high regard and I am disappointed to hear she does not favour gender equality.
I did not say that. I am in favour of gender equality, but not forced gender equality.
It is my policy and that of the Government that gender equality be brought about, regardless of whether Deputy O'Rourke agrees with it.
What about the Cabinet?
Start at the top.
The Government takes the view that to level the playing pitch it is necessary to advance the role of women at all levels of society. That will lead eventually to more women Members of the Oireachtas and more women Cabinet members. That would be a desirable development because women have much to offer and, through this kind of legislation, that can and will be achieved. I hope the Government will have the support of the House in obtaining gender equality at all the power points throughout our society such as State boards, local authorities, the Houses of Parliament and so on. We fall far behind many other countries in the numbers of women at the power points in our society, and we are the losers for that.
During his very fine dissertation on gender balance, the Minister neglected to say what he, as Minister for Equality and Law Reform, thought of the gender balance in the Cabinet.
The matter of balance in the Cabinet is a constitutional one. A policy of gender equality such as the Government is implementing will create opportunities for women to participate to the fullest possible extent in senior employment positions from which they are often, in practice, debarred at present. There will also be opportunities for them to participate on State boards where great influence is brought to bear and acquire the experience of participation on an equal basis. All that will lead in turn to greater participation of women in local authorities, in the Dáil, the Seanad and, ultimately, in the Cabinet.
Would the Minister agree that the Department of Social Welfare is quite high in the ratings, being above 40 per cent?
And Deputy Woods did not bludgeon anyone.
I did not have to bludgeon anyone. The Minister said there may be constitutional difficulties in relation to the Cabinet, but in the appointment of programme managers, the Government had a free hand. The number of women programme managers is small — I understand the Minister has employed a programme manager who is a woman. From among all the women in business, in the public service and throughout society, was it not possible for the Government to find more women to fill the programme manager posts to bring their level to 40 per cent? Was there a shortage? Why was there no attempt to reach that percentage at programme manager level?
Each Minister appoints one programme manager. The Government's policy on gender balance is that 40 per cent of appointments to State boards etc. should be women. Each programme manager appointment is a single appointment so the question of gender balance does not arise as it would if each Minister had two programme managers.
The recommendation on quotas on State bodies comes from the Commission on the Status of Women and it was agreed in Government that those recommendations should be accepted, so it is disingenous of the Minister to cite the Civil Legal Aid Board as his only line of defence from time to time. Can the Minister give a guarantee that eventually, with the reappointment of State boards, 40 per cent of the members will be women? The Minister does not have to stop at 40 per cent — there could be 50 per cent, 60 per cent, 80 per cent if he wished.
The policy of the Government is that on the appointment of new State boards a minimum of 40 per cent of the members must be women and a minimum of 40 per cent of the members must be men.
