Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 6 Apr 1995

Vol. 451 No. 7

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Child Beggars.

Liz O'Donnell

Ceist:

7 Ms O'Donnell asked the Minister for Health the specific programmes, if any, in place to protect and make an intervention on behalf of children who are allowed to beg on the streets of Dublin by their parents; the number of children estimated to be in this position; if these children are members of the travelling community in the main; if so, the steps if any, he is taking to ensure that this practice is discontinued; if provision will be made to enable the Garda place such children in care pending an investigation by the Eastern Health Board; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6738/95]

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Mr. Currie)

I understand from the Eastern Health Board that the majority of the children begging in Dublin city centre are members of the travelling community. The number of children involved is generally small but can vary depending on the time of year, with Christmas and the summer holidays being the peak periods. The children come from a small number of families who are well known to the authorities.

The Eastern Health Board is involved in a number of services aimed at assisting travelling children and their families as follows: first, the board, in conjunction with the Department of Education, supports a school and pre-school for 75 traveller children at St. Columbas Day Care Centre, Strand Street, Dublin 1 — children are collected each day and brought to the school where meals, health care and other back-up services are available — second, the board supports a resource centre operated by the Dublin Committee for Travelling People which provides, among other services, an after school and youth programme and third, the board provides financial assistance to the Dublin Committee for Travelling People towards the operating costs of two residential centres for travelling children. These are located at Derrylossary and Newtownmountkennedy in County Wicklow. Work is under way to relocate one of these facilities to Ballyowen Meadows in Clondalkin so that it will be more accessible to the large numbers of travelling families living in west County Dublin.

It is regrettable that despite the availability of these services and the advice of social workers employed by statutory agencies and the travellers organisations, a small number of traveller families persist in sending their children out to beg. While it is a criminal offence for parents to do so, I understand that the Garda face considerable difficulties in taking prosecutions because of the need to prove that the parents sent the children out to beg. The need to strengthen the law in this regard is being examined in the context of the preparation of legislation to replace the Children Act, 1908.

It is important to bear in mind that traveller families are entitled to social welfare payments on the same basis as other members of the community. The general public could play its part in discouraging the practice of begging by refraining from giving money in these circumstances. If members of the public wish to provide financial support to travellers, this can best be done by making donations to the various traveller organisations.

Ms O'Donnell

I thank the Minister of State for his response. May I cast his mind back to the specific question I posed which related to the small number of families who allow their children to beg on the streets of Dublin? What priority do health boards give to the problem of child begging? Does the Minister of the State not accept that, in the context of accepting cultural diversity and the ethnic rights of the travelling community, there is no concession that there is an ethnic right to neglect a child in this manner? Will he agree there is need for urgent action in this regard? If a member of the settled community allowed his or her child to beg on the streets of Dublin alone at night, we would expect the gardaí to take action. There should not be any acceptance on behalf of the Garda, the health board or this House that children of the travelling community have to put up with this low level of child protection.

Mr. Currie

The majority of travellers, and their organisations, frown on the question of begging. I am examining legislation in this area which includes the vagrancy Acts as far back as 1847 — coincidentally the worst year of the Famine — and the Children Act, 1908. It is not an easy matter to bring prosecutions. Parents almost always deny that the children are begging at their order and the children deny that their parents are responsible for them. Also, the children frequently give wrong names and addresses and, in the nature of things, it is difficult to find out where they live. Even when they are arrested it is difficult to find out from where they come and frequently the gardaí must scour the city in an effort to find out where they live. We are doing our best to ensure that children who are picked up are properly cared for, in other words, provided with food and given a medical check up.

In regard to the second part of the Deputy's question, we must tread carefully in regard to cultural matters. We must take extreme care not to saddle responsibility or blame children for perceived failings in respect of their parents. I am sure the Deputy will accept that the difficulties in this regard require very sensitive handling, and that sensitivity is important.

Ms O'Donnell

I take the point made by the Minister of State, but that sensitivity should not prejudice the individual and constitutional rights of children within their culture to be protected from neglect, children who are allowed beg on the streets at night are being neglected.

Is the Minister aware that under the Children Act, 1908 a garda can take immediate action by obtaining a care order, pending an investigation by the Eastern Health Board? Perhaps this would be a practical way of addressing the problem of begging, a practice carried out by a small number of families. It would fall short of prosecution, but it would send a clear message to the parents involved that such activity is unacceptable and that real intervention will be made by society to protect children.

Mr. Currie

I am pleased the Deputy focused on child neglect because that is the central issue of this problem. We must ensure that children are not neglected. It is not a question of begging or people being inconvenienced on O'Connell Street. The central issue is the concern of the child and in that regard the Deputy will be aware of the Government commitments regarding the Child Care Act, many important sections of which will be implemented this year. Its complete implementation will take place in 1996. I am satisfied that all concerns relating to child neglect will be covered in that Act and the Deputy has my assurance in that regard. It is the children who are the subject of our concern.

In the context of the sensitivity to which I referred, the gardaí have tried everything to which the Deputy referred. I will be examining the law in the context of updating the Children Act, 1908.

Miss Flaherty

Does the Eastern Health Board keep statistics on begging? The number of children begging has increased slightly in recent times, having been reduced significantly five or six years ago when the problem was endemic. There has also been a slight increase in central European families appearing en masse here and begging at churches and elsewhere. Did the Eastern Health Board refer to that matter? Is the Minister satisfied that the board is adequately resourcing this problem?

Mr. Currie

I am satisfied the Eastern Health Board has shown the necessary concern; it carried out a survey on the matter in 1989. I am not sure if it compiles statistics on the number of children begging at a particular place or time, but those that are available underline that the problem varies considerably. Apart from Christmas time and during the summer months when we have many tourists, it does not pose a major problem.