I wish to share my time with Deputy Martin.
Adjournment Debate. - Universities Governing Bodies Selection.
I am sure that is satisfactory and agreed.
Notwithstanding the fact that the Minister of State, Deputy Allen, is an able person, it is a matter of regret that the Minister for Education is not present to listen to what I have to say about a matter of great importance. While I thank the Minister of State for attending, he is not the person who makes the policy decisions in the Department of Education.
Unfortunately, this is not the first time the Minister has failed to turn up for a debate on the Adjournment. I do not think she has listened to one debate on any topic raised by me, Deputy Martin and others.
The topic I wish to raise relates to the autonomy of the governing bodies of universities. The Minister is attempting to seize control of the education system by stealth. If media reports that she is proposing to control the selection of the governing bodies are true, the implications are serious.
There have been disquieting rumours about the proposed legislation dealing with the governing bodies. In the White Paper on Education an amendment to the legislation dealing with the National University of Ireland was heralded. I do not know what the current status of that legislation is. From what I can gather from the new list of Bills to be dealt with this term, the Minister is lumping legislation together. All we have heard are rumours and innuendoes; it is a case of hints and management by press release. Unfortunately, this is a theme which has run through debates on education — including the debate on the VTOS which has just been adjourned — both this year and last. This is very unsatisfactory.
What philosophical stance has the Minister taken on the control of universities? Is it her intention to provide for even greater State control? Will she spell out her intentions in this regard? Is there a discussion document in circulation which includes the proposed heads of a Bill dealing with the autonomy of universities? Does she wish to exert control over the universities so that they are subject to her party's ideology?
The Minister should not have been so rude and insulting to Deputy Keogh. She was present for the debate on the VTOS and could not stay for an extra ten minutes to hear what we have to say on this issue. This goes to the core of the Government's commitment to Dáil reform about which the Taoiseach was so enthusiastic.
I have in my possession a position paper which was distributed to the heads of the universities, but which no politician has seen other than the Minister. It outlines all the changes she wishes to make.
Reforms were introduced recently to allow committees, such as the Select Committee on Social Affairs, either to initiate or consider legislation at a preliminary stage in order to make a meaningful contribution. The tradition has been to present legislation as a fait accompli. This is a classic example of the secrecy which surrounds the formulation of legislation. The Minister has been extremely unhelpful in releasing information and reports on education matters to Opposition Deputies.
The proposal that the new chairperson of universities should be appointed by the Minister is unacceptable and needs to be reassessed. Under this proposal the universities would be expected to put forward the names of three outside people from which the Minister would pick one. This defies reality and shows up the shortcomings of the formulation of legislation.
I assure Deputies Keogh and Martin that the Minister was present during the day but she has official business to attend to and cannot be present now. No discourtesy is intended to the House.
She always seems to be on official business.
I will answer any points raised. I spent a year on the governing body of a university and worked for 18 years in one so I know how they operate. I assure Deputies that what the Minister is doing is in the interest of universities, taxpayers and consumers.
The Minister for Education intends to bring forward amending legislation for the universities. Anyone who read the White Paper will know that, arising from the Government's decisions on the implementation of the Culliton and Moriarty reports, there is a commitment to a broadening of the composition of governing bodies of universities to provide wider representation. I am sure Deputies Martin and Keogh welcome that.
The White Paper indicates that academic staff, non-academic staff and students will have statutory representation on all governing bodies. No one will disagree with that. Coupled with that there will be appropriate provisions to ensure gender balance. There will also be statutory provision for ministerial nominees on all governing bodies.
As stated in the White Paper the legislation will seek to underpin a number of principles — regard for proper institutional autonomy coupled with appropriate public accountability; affirmation of the ethos and tradition of universities together with changes to reflect the role of universities in modern society and preservation of the diversity of universities and the enhancement of their development role. The White Paper sets out clearly the intentions for governing bodies. Preparation of the draft legislation is under way in the Department of Education in accordance with the commitments given in the White Paper.
As part of this process officials in the Department prepared a consultative working document which was circulated on a personal and confidential basis — I stress "confidential"— to the chancellor of the NUI and the heads of the seven university institutions. If it was circulated on a confidential basis it is odd that Deputy Martin should have a copy.
It came into my possession.
It just shows the use of the consultative process.
What is the big secret?
I am fed up reading announcements made by the Department in newspapers, so do not try to lecture me.
The Deputy was quiet today. He got his answer on another issue where there were many leaks. He was speechless.
I did not get any answers today. To what does the Minister of State refer?
Let us deal with the matter before the House.
Officials are developing the proposals in the working document in consultation with the university heads. I hoped there would be consultation with the university heads and the chancellor but obviously the old tricks are being played again. Their observations will be considered fully when finalising the Minister's proposals. The Minister intends to formally table legislative proposals in due course and the House will have every opportunity to examine and debate the legislation when it is brought forward by the Minister.