Mary Harney
Ceist:3 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if specific individuals have been invited to participate in discussions related to the establishment of an International Commission on the decommissioning of arms in Northern Ireland. [15075/95]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Decommissioning of Arms.
The two Governments are continuing our intensive efforts to advance matters towards allinclusive talks on a settlement. Within that context, we are working with all the relevant parties, including the US Administration, to find a way forward on the basis of the `twin-track' approach, which would address the issue of decommissioning and the groundwork for all-party talks. As that work is ongoing, I believe it would be unhelpful to give further details at this stage.
I am disappointed with the Taoiseach's response, because Government sources have been briefing the media overnight. The Taoiseach should have been more forthcoming here. Have the two Governments reached agreement in principle on the establishment of this commission and have they asked particular persons to serve on the commission?
We have not asked any particular persons to serve on the commission, nor have we agreed on names of persons who might serve on a commission or panel or whatever it is to be described as. The Tánaiste had a constructive meeting yesterday with the Secretary of State, on which he will report to the House later. There was a welcome agreement between the Tánaiste and the Secretary of State on the "twin track" approach. A common hope was expressed that, an international body could take an objective and creative look at the arms issue to see how the deficit of trust that currently exists between some of the parties on the arms issue could be overcome. As a result of the Tánaiste's work with the Secretary of State, openness was expressed by the British Government subsequent to the meeting, which was welcome. It probably bears out the guarded optimism I have been expressing on this subject in the House and for which I have been criticised.
Will the commission have a wider remit than merely dealing with the process for decommissioning?
It is too early yet to answer that question. We have not agreed on a format, description, or detailed terms of reference that would enable me to answer the Deputy's question precisely, but it is fair to say there has been quite an amount of movement in recent times, notably in the Tánaiste's meeting yesterday with Sir Patrick Mayhew.
Will the Taoiseach confirm that there will be detailed terms of reference for the commission? In recent weeks, there has been speculation about that.
There are two stages to this. We have to get everybody to agree to co-operate with the commission to give undertakings to the commission that will be capable of being transmitted to others by the commissioner panel on a basis that will be acceptable to other people. Arising from that, there will be a detailed or otherwise description of the modus operandi of the body, commission or panel. The second stage flows, to some degree, from the first. I am not certain at this stage, and we could not say how detailed the terms of reference will be but they will be sufficiently detailed to enable everybody to work constructively with the commission, to accept its bona fides and to accept that it will take an objective and creative look at the arms issue and help all to find a way through the distrust around that issue. I cannot say at this stage whether the terms of reference will be one, two or ten paragraphs long and the Deputy would not expect me to.
Without pursuing that, the Taoiseach will recall that the matter of the terms of reference created the great difficulty last time around. I will not push the issue now but I will watch what happens. On the "twin track" approach, it seems to have been pursued overnight. Will the Taoiseach confirm if we should read into that, that the decommissioning panel will commence work prior to President Clinton's visit and certainly prior to Christmas and that all-party talks will start after Christmas?
We should be cautious in reading dates into anything said at this stage, because we have not finalised the matter. While much progress has been made, notably at the meeting on Monday, there still remains an amount of work to be done. We have to get all the relevant people to agree or indicate a sufficient level of agreement so that we can proceed. As I have explained this is not simply a matter between the two Governments; there are other parties whose co-operation is essential if this process is to work. While the Governments might be able to reach agreement comparatively easily, that does not mean we have agreement. We have to be sure that others whose co-operation is equally important also go along with what is being done. That is part of what is going on at the moment.
I want to bring this question to finality.
I do not want to pursue what is tantalisingly close again this week.
I had forgotten the king of Phrygia.
So we know what "twin track" means. Would it be correct to say that the decommissioning group, body, agency or panel — whatever the Taoiseach finally calls it — would commence its work prior to all-party talks or are we talking about parallel issues? Up until now, we believed the "twin track" approach was a decommissioning panel working first and then all-party talks within a number of weeks. I accept that we must get everybody on board but what is the plan? What is the Taoiseach trying to achieve?
The plan is, broadly speaking, the same as previously in so far as the commission or panel will do some of its work prior to the start of round table talks, but that does not mean that, in the earlier period, all parties might not talk to one another. The round table phase where all parties are talking to one another in the same room will not commence until there has been an initial amount of work done and reports given by the body in question. That has been the approach all along and it has not changed.
In the light of the welcome progress made yesterday, does the Taoiseach envisage that a summit can take place between himself and the British Prime Minister within the next week?
I do not. There will not be a summit within the next week. On the other hand, I am ready to meet the Prime Minister at any time when we have all the necessary work completed. If the Deputy asked me to anticipate if there would be one within the next week, I would say "no" although much progress has been made. I expect to talk to the Prime Minister during the week to further advance discussions I have had with him recently and to build on the progress made by the Tánaiste.
Will the Taoiseach try to bring all the parties together? Will he continue in the intervening period, before the decommissioning panel commences its work, with the phase two talks between the Dublin Government and the Northern parties? Is it his intention to keep that process moving?
There is a problem of nomenclature here. The talks we had with the various Northern parties were free-standing talks with an open agenda to which we invited them. They were not necessarily part of any process. They were not a part of phase two. If we had billed them as being part of the second strand per se, they might not have occurred. They were free-standing justifiable contacts between this Government and the parties in Northern Ireland, which is something we should have all the time. It is a great pity there has been a gap of a quarter of a century between the last meeting of a Taoiseach and the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party and my meeting with Mr. David Trimble, but that gap has now been bridged and we have had those meetings. I hope we will be able to have further meetings but I would not wish to place them in any strand; they are meetings justifiable in themselves.
Would it not be advisable, under strand II or in informal talks, to try to get the parties in Northern Ireland to agree with the terms of reference you are putting forward to the panel? Otherwise you are running straight into the difficulty you were in before.
I agree with that, in principle. However, bearing in mind that my meeting with Mr. Trimble was the first between a Taoiseach and the leader of the Unionist Party for 25 years, I would not have expected us to reach agreement on everything on the agenda during the first such contact. Many other contacts, informal and otherwise, are taking place between the Governments and all the parties in Northern Ireland with a view to reaching agreement. We are looking for all inclusive talks which means not just having republicans and Nationalists at the table but Unionists too. It is very important that they should participate because common sense suggests that you cannot have an agreement with people who are not present.