Helen Keogh
Ceist:21 Ms Keogh asked the Minister for Education the plans, if any, she has to publish the discussion document on the governing bodies of universities; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [16398/95]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers (Resumed). - University Governing Bodies.
Within the next two to three weeks I intend to publish a paper which will provide an outline of the proposals on university legislation which I propose to bring to Government.
My proposals will be based upon the White Paper on Education which, in Chapter 5, sets out a framework for the development of higher education and makes a commitment to introduce legislation for universities.
As outlined in the White Paper, the legislation will provide for a revised structure for governing bodies aimed at broadening their composition so as to provide wider representation from society and the economy.
It will also amend the National University of Ireland legislation on the basis of proposals put forward by the senate of the NUI. The aim of these provisions will be to give greater autonomy to the present constituent colleges and the recognised college at Maynooth.
The legislation will also address issues of accountability and transparency while ensuring proper institutional autonomy and affirming the ethos, diversity and traditions of all of the university institutions.
Over the past few months officials of my Department have been in consultation with the heads of the university institutions on the content of legislation. That process of consultation will shortly be completed. My Department has benefited greatly from the advice of the university heads in developing the legislative proposals.
Is it not true that the discussions the Minister has had have generally been in secret and she has refused to disclose her proposals and to have public debate on them? Rather, she has leaked them to various newspapers.
It was you who leaked them.
Let us hear the Deputy in possession. She has but a couple of minutes.
It is quite unusual to have heckling from a Minister during another Minister's questions. I would ask the Minister to reflect also on what proposals she has for the accountability of universities. In what way does she believe they are not accountable now? How does she back up this claim? Will she go ahead with the proposals that were leaked to newspapers, presumably by her own Department?
It was not leaked by my Department. I ask the Deputy to believe me when I say it was not.
They appeared anyway.
Where did you get them, Michael?
From a good source. It is disgraceful that I did not get it from the Department.
Let us hear the Deputy in possession.
Is it not true that many of the proposals we have heard in relation to education have appeared first in the public press, not on the floor of the House for discussion in this democratic forum? Does the Minister not agree that had another Minister behaved like this, she would be saying it is disgraceful? It is disgraceful that we should talk about bits and pieces of leaked proposals?
The White Paper on education published in April 1995 contained an outline of proposals relating to university legislation. In July a confidential working paper was drawn up by the Department of Education and it contained draft outline legislative provisions which were circulated to the heads of the university institutions. There followed substantial written observations from them. On 29 August there was a meeting with the Provost and other senior officers at Trinity. In September there was a meeting with all the heads of the universities. Again this was followed by substantial written submissions from the heads.
At the beginning of October a revised outline and confidential legislative proposals were circulated. A meeting took place on 10 October at which more written submissions were received. It was more than signposted in April that we would hold discussions with the universities and I am conscious that when the legislation is introduced it will be debated line by line. As my pattern in proposing changes has been to consult, I was pleased at the level of consultation conducted between officials of my Department and the universities affected. I am also pleased that there has been a steady coming together of positions and consultations will be completed in the next two to three weeks. Deputies can debate the legislation when it comes before the House.
Has the Minister backed off her proposals that would interfere with the governance and charter of Trinity and those that would weaken the autonomy of the NUI colleges?
I cannot back off in the middle of consultations. I ask the Deputy to try to understand the meaning of consultation. As I have already stated, we are pleased at the level of consultation and the work that has been carried out. I ask that the consultation process be completed before anyone accuses any side of backing off.
I ask that priority Question No. 22 be kept on the Order Paper for the next Question Time.