Mary Harney
Ceist:1 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach the plans, if any, for an Anglo-Irish Summit between himself and the British Prime Minister before the elections take place in Northern Ireland. [7012/96]
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Anglo-Irish Summit.
Mary Harney
Ceist:2 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach the recent discussion, if any, he has had with representatives of the Churches regarding the peace process. [7017/96]
Bertie Ahern
Ceist:3 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach the recent meetings, if any, he has had with the leaders of the main churches. [7215/96]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, together.
I had a very useful meeting on 23 February with the leaders of the four main Churches in Ireland where the main topic of discussion was the peace process. The Church leaders were supportive of the efforts of the Government to achieve a restoration of the ceasefire and the opening of all-party negotiations at the earliest possible date.
I have also had extensive informal discussions with individual Church leaders on a range of topics.
In regard to an Anglo-Irish Summit, a meeting between the British Prime Minister and myself will take place whenever deemed appropriate. The Tánaiste is meeting the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland later this afternoon.
Given the serious concerns of the Nationalist parties in Northern Ireland about the proposed role for the forum, will the Taoiseach confirm his earlier assurance that the forum will not have a role in the all-party talks and that they will be insulated from its role and function?
I said that last week.
As the Government has not been able to convince the Nationalist parties of that matter, what is the Taoiseach doing to reassure them on that point given that they have expressed serious reservations about this publicly and privately?
I answered questions from the Deputy on that matter explicitly and succinctly last week. What I say in the House is on the record and available for perusal by anyone who wishes to do so. What I said stands.
Does the Taoiseach intend to engage in discussions with the British Government concerning the confusion about the proposed role for the forum?
That matter is currently under discussion between the Tánaiste and the Secretary of State. The Tánaiste is exercising the main responsibility for negotiating the details of the operation of the procedures leading to the opening of the talks on 10 June. I have given a clear indication of the general position. Detailed discussions are taking place between the Tánaiste and the Secretary of State and they will have a meeting this afternoon.
I raised this matter with the Tánaiste yesterday. Will the Taoiseach make available to the Opposition the latest consultation paper on the elections issued by the British Government and make every effort to ensure that as a matter of course the Opposition is given important public Government documents on the peace process? I do not have great sympathy for the INLA or the activities engaged in by its political group, the IRSP. Will the Taoiseach give his view on the British Government's decision to rule that party out of the 15 parties that may take part in the electoral process? Does he consider that advisable given that the party is unlikely to secure a mandate based on the minimum figure set down?
As I outlined to Deputy Harney, the detailed arrangements concerning discussions on the working operations of the forum, its relationship to the negotiations and the discussions about the electoral process were and continue to be handled by the Tánaiste in discussion with the Secretary of State. That function is being pursued at that level. The Deputy's two questions concerning the consultation paper and the position of the IRSP would be better addressed to the Tánaiste. As Deputy Ahern raised them I will ask the Tánaiste to consider them and to get in touch with him.
As we are dealing with questions to the Taoiseach and debating the peace process generally at this time, it would be better if we could debate these matters in this session.
The detailed discussion on this matter has been delegated to the Tánaiste. He is responsible for this area and represents us at Anglo-Irish conferences. It is not my function, nor has it been one of previous Taoisigh, to represent the country at Anglo-Irish conferences. If those questions had been tabled by the Deputy as ordinary questions, they would have been referred to the Tánaiste for answer. It is better to deal with the matter in that way. As I indicated to the Deputy, the Tánaiste is having a meeting with the Secretary of State this afternoon. I will convey the Deputy's views to the Tánaiste and I hope a satisfactory communication will take place.
I note from the terms of reference of the Taoiseach's special adviser and programme manager published in a newspaper that extraordinary and unprecedented restrictions appear to have been placed on use of his diplomatic skills to try to move forward the peace process. Those type of restrictions did not apply to his predecessor who dealt with Northern Ireland matters in the Taoiseach's office. Why are those restrictions so rigorous? Did the Tánaiste and the Department of Foreign Affairs insist on them? It appears unhelpful to the Taoiseach that his programme manager should be prevented from doing a job which I am sure he is more than capable of doing.
I thank the Deputy for his remarks which I am sure Mr. Donlon will be pleased to hear. The roles of the Taoiseach and Minister for Foreign Affairs in these matters are well established by precedent which is being followed in this Administration, as it was in the past in terms of respective responsibilities. My responsibility is to deal with other Governments at prime ministerial level. That is necessary frequently in regard to Northern Ireland and I must engage in the necessary preparatory work to ensure that I can do that. I have done that on every occasion with the full assistance of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, as did previous Taoisigh. However, day to day matters concerning Northern Ireland and representations about particular incidents, representation at Anglo-Irish conferences and the detailed working out of procedures in regard to, for example, the political track of the twin track process, are being pursued by the Tánaiste. There are well understood divisions of responsibility between those working in the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Foreign Affairs. Much as I would like to oblige the Deputy by answering questions about contracts and other matters, these questions are about a meeting of the churches and a summit meeting with the Prime Minister. With due respect to the Chair, the Deputy's question is not entirely in order.
I agree with what was said about the Taoiseach's programme manager. He has enormous skills in this area and used them very effectively before for the benefit of this country, particularly in the United States.
And continues to do so.
Yes, I agree and they should be used as fully as possible. We are privileged that he has put his service at the disposal of the Government in regard to Northern Ireland. In the context of the Taoiseach's meeting with the churches, did he raise the issue of the proposed marches which will begin in Northern Ireland next Monday? Does he share my concern that if those marches are not rerouted and pass through areas where they are not wanted they will have a very damaging effect on the peace process at a sensitive time in Northern Ireland?
The meeting with all the Churches took place on 23 February at which the main topics of discussion were the ceasefire and the broad political situation. There was no substantive discussion of the question of marches, but there was one on the peace rallies, then current, and their implications.
I endorse the point made by the Deputy that the marching season has much potential for bad and, regrettably, all too little for good as far as the peace process is concerned. I urge all concerned, either in marching, observing marching or dealing with marches, to exercise the maximum degree of restraint and not feel that provocation, if offered, must be returned in kind. One must recognise that restraint should be exercised by all concerned and that this is a personal responsibility as well as a community responsibility.
There is far too much triumphalism, which is out of date and inconsistent with the process of reconciliation. I would like it to be removed from the demonstrations which have been dignified with the term "tradition".
What efforts have the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste made with the British authorities to do something about the matter? Recently, I met the representatives of the residents of the Lower Ormeau Road where, beginning next week, there will be a number of marches each month until late October. They informed Fianna Fáil, and I am sure other parties in this House, that, despite the difficulties encountered last year, they have tried to enter into dialogue with the Secretary of State, the Northern Ireland Office and the RUC. Taken at face value, they seem to be peace loving. They indicated that while they were representing the views of Catholics they share the attitude of Protestants in the area that they do not want these marches which are comprised mainly of outsiders.
The answer they always receive is that this is a public order issue and that unless a riot or a march is prohibited or blocked by force nothing can be done. That seems to be extraordinary and could be seen as a statement inciting people to do so. What is the Government doing to convince the Northern Ireland Office to change its attitude on this important matter?
I am aware — I am sorry if I did not mention this in response to Deputy Harney — that in the past ten days to two weeks there has been a detailed discussion between the secretariat representing the Government and the Northern Ireland authorities on the question of marches covering such issues as who should take the decision to reroute a march, whether this is a police matter or whether wider political sensitivities need to be taken into account.
The Government has urged the view that while the police force is to the forefront and has a major responsibility it should not have sole responsibility, that there are wider political implications, if matters go astray. It has conveyed its views both in respect of flashpoints, such as the Garvaghy Road, and generally to the British authorities. The issue is being pursued intensively.
There was a formal discussion, I think in the past two weeks, of which I have read a report, but there are, probably, daily discussions between the secretariat and the Northern Ireland Office on matters which touch on this. It is, as I said to Deputy Harney, a serious matter which is taken seriously by the Government.
As I understand it, the great majority of marches at this time of year are church parades which end up in churches. On the next occasion the Taoiseach meets the Church authorities he should avail of the opportunity to say to them that they cannot wash their hands of a parade which ends up in a church, how it is conducted, where it goes, comes from and passes by. If the authorities in each of the relevant Churches took a constructive view about basic Christian principles in the context of putting them into effect, there is little to be said for prayer in a church at the end of a parade which is the subject of deep division and inflammatory activities.
It is important to recognise that charity is the primary virtue to which expression is given by organised Christian religions and that activities which involve triumphalism do not constitute an expression of charity. The Deputy has done us a service by recalling the nature and origin of many of the parades which have as their ultimate destination a church and church service in the same way as traditional St. Patrick's Day parades and parades all over the world. There is nothing exceptional about them, but it is important that the original Christian ethos, their declared purpose, should also be evident both in their planning and conduct and the way in which objections are dealt with.
Is the Taoiseach aware that of the 2,500 marches which take place during the marching season across Northern Ireland — I stand to be corrected on this — approximately 30 cause problems? The residents of the Lower Ormeau Road whom I met with my party leader indicated that a political decision is needed rather than a policing one. Is the Taoiseach aware that when a political decision was made in the past by the Secretary of State to ban marches on either side of the political divide no problems were encountered? However, if it is seen as a policing decision to be made within hours of the time of the march, tension is heightened within the areas concerned.
On a related matter, has the Government made any representations — I am aware the Taoiseach got into trouble when he delved into matters in the House of Commons — about the forthcoming legislation which will provide for the holding of elections and the establishment of the proposed forum to ensure that participation in the forum will not be seen as a condition in respect of the all-party talks due to begin on 10 June?
I agree with the thesis advanced by the Deputy in the first part of his question on the need for political decisions as distinct from policing decisions and to take an overall view. I have more or less said this in response to Deputy Bertie Ahern.
I will not involve myself in any discussion of the assumptions upon which the second part of the Deputy's question was initially founded. However, the Tánaiste is due to have a meeting this afternoon with the Secretary of State at which the matter raised by the Deputy will be discussed. As he will recollect, I gave categoric assurances on the Government's position on this matter both to Deputy Bertie Ahern and Deputy Harney last week.
Did the Taoiseach discuss with David Trimble the confrontation which results from marches? If not, why not? If he did so, what was Mr. Trimble's response?
I have answered questions relating to meetings we had with the Ulster Unionist delegation. These questions relate to meetings I had with church leaders and a possible discussion with the British Prime Minister. As regards the meeting with the delegation, as with other parties, it is appropriate to maintain a degree of confidentiality. I have indicated that we discussed all matters relevant to the peace and talks processes.
Can I take it that the Taoiseach discussed the Orange——
No. I would prefer if the Deputy did not draw me into any specifics of that nature. I realise the forensics skill with which the Deputy is putting the question. It is almost in the category of: "have you stopped beating your wife?" I do not want to go into detail on the discussions we had, the main focus of which was not on the marches but on the talks process and their expectations of the results of that process. We did not focus to any great degree on what would happen during the summer months.
I know the Taoiseach is aware that the Archbishop of Dublin, Dr. Donald Caird, will retire during the Easter break. Will he join me in conveying our good wishes for a long and happy retirement to Dr. Caird and his wife? Will he also join with me in expressing our gratitude for his wise, constructive and forward looking leadership on the peace process in matters of church and State, including education, and thank him for his deep commitment over 50 years to the Irish language?
I am glad the Deputy raised this issue. I conveyed those wishes to Dr. Caird and his wife on Monday when they came to see me, at my invitation, in Government Buildings. Everything the Deputy says about him is entirely deserved. He has proved to be a pastor to his people in the best sense of that term.