Vol. 465 No. 6
13 Mr. Dempsey asked the Minister for Tourism and Trade his views from a tourism point of view of the licensing of a casino in this State; whether he has studied the benefits for the tourism industry of the establishment of a casino; if so, the findings of these studies; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10259/96]
57 Mr. Andrews asked the Minister for Tourism and Trade the studies, if any, that have been carried out by his Department on the tourism benefits of a casino; and his views on this matter. [7415/96]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 13 and 57 together.
An inter-agency task force under the aegis of the Department of Finance has been considering all aspects of licensing a casino in Ireland, including likely impact on tourism. I understand the task force report is at present being finalised.
Will the Minister comment on the fact that SONAS got what it wanted in terms of the development at the former Phoenix Park racecourse? Does the Government intend to introduce legislation or amend existing legislation to provide for the establishment of a casino by SONAS? Does the Minister agree that the other aspects of the development are worth supporting, for example, the hotel, whose owners have a worldwide reputation, the conference centre and sporting facilities? Does the Government intend to isolate these developments and support them and to abandon the casino concept? As I understand it, the development will not go ahead unless permission is given for a casino.
The Deputy is asking me to give an opinion on one application. Fourteen consortia submitted proposals and it would not be proper for me to comment on one to the exclusion of the others.
To what other consortia is the Minister referring? Is he referring to the casino or the conference centre?
Fourteen consortia submitted proposals for a conference centre.
Did the Minister totally disregard that competition and give the conference centre to the RDS?
A task force under the aegis of the Department is considering the casino proposal.
I am not trying to be smart but it is clear the Government is going ahead with the conference centre at the RDS.
That is not correct. The matter is under consideration and it has yet to be given clearance by Europe.
There is some doubt about it.
The negotiations are ongoing.
These questions relate to the establishment of a casino in the Phoenix Park racecourse. Question No. 13 asks the Minister his views from a tourism point of view of the licensing of a casino in this State; whether he has studied the benefits for the tourism industry of the establishment of a casino; if so, the findings of these studies; and if he will make a statement on the matter. That is a straightforward question. Question No. 57 asks the Minister the studies, if any, that have been carried out by his Department on the tourism benefits of a casino; and his views on the matter. Does the Minister of State have any views on the matter? If he does not have any views then he should say so.
The Minister will express his views on the matter when the task force has presented its report. It would not be proper for him to preempt the deliberations of the task force.
Do the terms of reference of the task force deal with the location of the proposed casino?
I understand proposals have been put forward for Dublin but also for Cork, Killarney, Shannon and elsewhere. Do the terms of reference of the task force refer to this aspect?
I am not in a position to respond to that question. I will endeavour to establish whether there is more than one location and I will communicate with the Deputy.
Does the Minister of State agree that, in general, the establishment of casinos throughout the world of the size and nature envisaged for the Phoenix Park has been undesirable? This country would be better off without the types of people and activities they tend to bring in their wake. Will the Minister of State express a view that perhaps we could do without the casino and all it entails?
The findings are that 80 to 90 per cent of the patrons of casinos are locals. The benefit of bringing people into the country would be minimal. My personal view is that I am opposed to the casino.
Is that the view of the Minister for Tourism and Trade?
The Deputy asked me a question; I do not know the views of the Minister for Tourism and Trade in this regard. He is awaiting the response of the task force. I gave the Deputy my personal view.
The Minister of State is present to answer questions on behalf of the Minister for Tourism and Trade.
I thank the Deputy for the lesson in politics. The Deputy asked me a question and I gave him my personal view, which is that I am not in favour of it.
I did not nominate the Minister of State to attend.
Let us not have disagreement in the debate. This is Question Time.
The Minister of State is in an extraordinarily touchy humour. He gets upset every time he is asked a question.
He should relax.
We have established that the Minister of State is against the proposal. As he is present to answer questions on behalf of the Minister, can he tell the House if that is also the Minister's view?
I cannot because the Minister is awaiting the outcome of the report of the task force.
Can the Minister not hold a view unless he has a task force to tell him what view to hold? Is he unable to make up his mind about these matters?
He is capable of doing so, but the Department of Finance has appointed a task force and it is now considering the matter. The Deputy asked how I felt about it and I understood him to mean my personal view.
I wish to proceed to other Deputies' questions.
The Minister cannot make up his mind without a task force.
Perhaps Deputy O'Malley will put his question and then resume his seat.
Can the Minister do anything without a task force to advise him? Would it not be better if he and the Government had their own views on these matters?
It is not without precedent to refer these matters to task forces or various bodies for consideration. There are ample precedents in the history of the State.
It is evident the Minister of State believes, in common with others, that casions are occasions of sin. Is he making his judgment on that basis or on an economic trading basis? Does he feel the wrong type of individuals will attend the casino? In fairness to the Minister of State, we know where he stands, but for what other reasons is he against it? Has this task force been set up under the Minister for Finance, Deputy Quinn, to adjudicate on this matter? It seems extraordinary.
The task force comprises representatives from many Departments. It is not for me to carry out a moral audit as to whether such a casino is desirable or what it is likely to do to the people of this country. That is not my job.
I have no interest one way or the other in the casino. However, the Minister of State has given the House his personal opinion which we can say reflects the views of his Government colleagues.
The Deputy cannot say so; that is most unfair. The Deputy cannot make that assumption. I am glad Deputy O'Malley is suitably mute.
The casino is a nonevent.
Will the task force liaise with Bord Fáilte and other interests as to whether legislation should be introduced to enable the setting up of a casino? I understood from Bord Fáilte representatives that the sustainable development sub-committee favoured a particular type of casino. Has it had an opportunity to put its views to the task force?
Given that the task force will assess the likely impact on tourism, I imagine that will follow and the appropriate body is Bord Fáilte.
