Joe Walsh
Ceist:14 Mr. J. Walsh asked the Minister for Education the further plans, if any, she has to deal with the growing problem of indiscipline in our schools. [12622/96]
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - School Indiscipline.
Michael Ahern
Ceist:18 Mr. M. Ahern asked the Minister for Education the further plans, if any, she has to deal with the growing problem of indiscipline in our schools. [12626/96]
Brendan Kenneally
Ceist:20 Mr. Kenneally asked the Minister for Education the further plans, if any, she has to deal with the growing problem of indiscipline in our schools. [12628/96]
Donal Moynihan
Ceist:24 Mr. Moynihan asked the Minister for Education the further plans, if any, she has to deal with the growing problem of indiscipline in our schools. [12623/96]
John O'Leary
Ceist:26 Mr. O'Leary asked the Minister for Education the further plans, if any, she has to deal with the growing problem of indiscipline in our schools. [12630/96]
Martin Cullen
Ceist:31 Mr. Cullen asked the Minister for Education the further plans, if any, she has to deal with the growing problem of indiscipline in our schools. [12629/96]
Ned O'Keeffe
Ceist:38 Mr. E. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Education the further plans, if any, she has to deal with the growing problem of indiscipline in our schools. [12627/96]
Micheál Martin
Ceist:45 Mr. Martin asked the Minister for Education the further plans, if any, she has to deal with the growing problem of indiscipline in our schools. [12620/96]
Denis Foley
Ceist:51 Mr. Foley asked the Minister for Education the further plans, if any, she has to deal with the growing problem of indiscipline in our schools. [12624/96]
John O'Donoghue
Ceist:59 Mr. O'Donoghue asked the Minister for Education the further plans, if any, she has to deal with the growing problem of indiscipline in our schools. [12621/96]
Willie O'Dea
Ceist:73 Mr. O'Dea asked the Minister for Education the further plans, if any, she has to deal with the growing problem of indiscipline in our schools. [12625/96]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 14, 18, 20, 24, 26, 31, 38, 45, 51, 59 and 73 together.
As Minister, I am very aware of the problems being reported by school authorities and teachers. However, there is a shortage of objective information in this area and, as Deputies will appreciate, this is an area where perceptions can be very important.
I have commissioned a research project on discipline in primary and second-level schools. This study will identify the extent of discipline problems in the education system. It will also identify models of good practice in the maintenance of discipline in schools. I expect to receive the report on the study by the end of the year. This report will be discussed with the partners in education and will provide a valuable input in the review of the existing guidelines.
As far as the present position is concerned the managerial authorities of each school are responsible for ensuring that a fair and efficient code of behaviour, encompassing rules, sanctions and procedures, is drawn up and applied in their schools. The Department, through the in-career development unit, provides support towards courses for teachers in the areas of classroom management and discipline. These courses are organised mainly by the teacher unions — the INTO and the ASTI.
Circumstances will vary from school to school and it is only those intimately involved with a particular school who can draw up a code of discipline appropriate for that school. To assist schools in this process, guidelines on school behaviour and discipline were issued to all schools.
On my travels throughout the country meeting parents and teachers generally, I noted concern about the increasing levels of indiscipline in schools and the degree to which it is impacting on the delivery and provision of a sound educational programme. Many teachers are at a loss in dealing with the problem. When I tabled a similar question more than a year ago the research project on discipline was announced. We are awaiting its publication for a long time. Following publication it is important that its recommendations be implemented as quickly as possible.
On a specific point, is the Minister concerned about the increasing number of suspensions and expulsions, particularly at second level, with the result that many children aged 12, 13 and 14 unfortunately end up on the streets? There is no safety net to pick them up, and there is very little referral to psychological services. Has the Minister any data available to her Department about the number of expulsions and the indefinite suspensions in our schools?
I do not deny there is a problem. In primary schools a pupil cannot be struck off the roll and in secondary schools a pupil under 15 years of age cannot be expelled. Sometimes, department officials and inspectorate have to bring that matter to the attention of boards of management. The research project is nearing completion. Guidelines on school behaviour and discipline have been in place since 1991. It is important those guidelines are reviewed in light of the research which will be available to the partners in education. The Deputy must remember that the level of misbehaviour and trouble is higher in some schools than others. Research and good codes of practice are necessary and the Government is prepared to make necessary resources available to teachers to help them draw up a relevant code of discipline. However, this should be done when the research is complete and following consultation with the partners in education, including the managerial bodies.
It is worth reminding the House that primary school pupils and second level students under 15 years of age may not be expelled. There are programmes such as Youthreach for students over the age of 15 years although they are not always available countrywide. I look forward to accepting the research carried out by St. Patrick's College, Maynooth on discipline in primary and second level schools. This will be completed this year and I expect it will then be discussed with managerial bodies, teachers and parents. A review of the existing guidelines, based on the research, is timely. If changes are based on the research, it will be possible to meet a problem which appears to be growing in some areas.
Does the Government have any plans to amend and update the truancy legislation? This dates back to 1926 and is, by common consent, grossly outdated.
The review of the truancy legislation comes within the portfolio of the Minister of State, Deputy Currie.
Will the Minister accept it is not necessary to wait for the results of research to acknowledge there is a severe problem regarding the breakdown of discipline in schools? Teachers are bringing forward this information and they can suggest a solution without the depth of analysis the Minister claims to require. Teachers say they are not receiving necessary support; for example, there is no school psychological service at primary level. If there is a behavioural or indiscipline problem in a school, it can take up to three years for a child to receive psychological assessment. Will the Minister admit this greatly contributes to the problems of indiscipline in primary schools?
Children with behavioural problems contribute to difficulties in schools. However, this issue is guided by perception at present. The ASTI asked that the research project, which I announced, should be completed. This research has a positive role to play because there is already a code of behaviour. When an indiscipline difficulty in a school is brought to my attention, it is interesting to ask about the management of the discipline code in the school.
The code of discipline was put in place in 1991 and I have reason to believe it works reasonably well in a large number of schools. The research project was established to respond to a need to update the guidelines and to examine and produce statistics on the level of the existing problem. Another aspect of the project is to make available information on good codes of practice to schools through boards of management and managerial bodies to enable a code of behaviour to be drawn up in partnership.
This approach worked well in terms of a dress code for the school examinations this year. There were no headlines this year about this matter; no cases arose in County Donegal. Everything went well because, in response to a difficulty which arose last year regarding dress during examinations, it was possible with the managerial bodies, teacher unions and parents to devise a code which was acceptable and flexible enough to be put into practice in schools. It should be noted that nobody was under threat of expulsion from an examination on the basis of dress this year. This was a major news item last year.
A good practice exists in the Department and there is a good relationship between union officers, parents' associations representatives and managerial bodies. All those involved come together in a number of committees and bring forward codes of behaviour. The Deputy suggested some teachers feel isolated if problems arise in the classroom, but the guidelines are not imposed by the managers at the top and then ignored. It would be wise to allow the research project to be completed. At that stage it should not be considered in terms of ministerial advice and issuing a dictum, rather that we can move forward in the same manner as last year regarding a less disruptive problem. The partners involved in resolving that issue will be the same partners involved in drawing up a revised code of practice.
The Minister may not be aware that suspensions and expulsions of children aged up to 15 years in second level schools are taking place. Many boards of management may make the point that, while the State has a duty to provide children up to the age of 15 years with an education, the manner in which it is provided is a different matter. Schools are expelling students under the age of 15 years. They may refer them to youth services or a youth project, but, unfortunately, those children invariably do not end up on the schemes and they fall through the net.
A question please, Deputy.
The Minister should not be complacent in relation to children aged up to 15 years, particularly in the post primary sector. No safety net exists in the system to cater for children who must be removed from classrooms because they are disrupting the education of the class. However, these children also have individual rights and must receive care. No safety mechanism is in place to care for such children and to help them reintegrate in the mainstream system in future.
I assure the Deputy I am aware of the situation. However, at times, I question whether all schools and parents are aware that legal consequences can arise if a pupil under 15 years is expelled and an alternative placement in another school has not been secured. The Department of Education's inspectorate spends time with parents and schools dealing with this issue. The Department is aware of the problem because it is brought sharply to its attention when people feel all else has failed. It is timely to remind people of rule 130 in the primary school rules and the legal obligation on second level schools but this does not take from the fact, as the Deputy mentioned, that some pupils need specific care and attention. The intention is that the Department will be in a position to respond to their needs.
The Minister shielded herself with the Supreme Court on the last occasion. On this occasion she is shielding herself with a study, as she has done in relation to many questions in the past. The Minister said she is aware of the difficulties, but this matter has been ongoing for a number of years and the difficulties in schools are escalating. Is the Minister satisfied with the current ad hoc arrangement between schools regarding indiscipline? While such an arrangement was fine for a small number of pupils, the problem is increasing and the arrangement itself poses a difficulty. I concur with Deputy Martin that in many cases boards of management act outside the law.
In reply to a recent question I put to the Minister on the extent of bullying in schools she indicated there was not a system in place for reporting such incidents to the Department. If she could deal effectively with truancy, which has a direct link with lawlessness, and implement a reporting system on bullying, effective short-term action could be taken on matters that are fundamental to the proper organisation and running of our schools.
The Deputy referred to the escalation of the problem, the ad hoc arrangements in place to deal with it and the manner in which we are gathering information.
The Department does not have official statistics on the matter.
I commissioned research on this matter so that we would not have to make guesstimations on whether the problem is accelerating or whether some schools have more problems than others. I support the need for proper Irish research in this area and it will be completed. The people who run the schools will have access to this information and we will then be able to draw up guidelines on a code of practice for schools. Research on bullying has been carried out and we have compiled reports. The Minister has responsibility for some areas, but boards of management are responsible for the running of their schools. The guidelines on bullying issued by the Department were actively implemented by boards of management in co-operation with teachers and parents and as a result time spent at school has improved for some children.
The Department does not have records in that regard.
Some Members do not want research carried out while others do.
We want action.
There are no accurate reports on the matter.
I ask that I be allowed complete the research on indiscipline problems. Guidelines were put in place in 1991 but evidently there is a perception——
It is not a perception, it is a reality.
——that we need to revisit those guidelines and in doing so it is important that research on the Irish position be available. The new guidelines will be drawn up in co-operation with those who oversee behaviour in schools. Bullying is a form of indiscipline. The boards of management have a major role to play in this regard and not all second level schools have boards of management which include parents and teachers. Interesting legislation in that area is being prepared.
We are waiting.
It is being prepared. Boards of management, together with parents, managers and teachers — who have to deal with the problem in the classroom — have an important role in dealing with the problem of bullying in schools. A great deal of work was done on the code of practice last year and given the research being carried out we can look forward to a real response. I am prepared to update the guidelines accordingly.