Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 23 Oct 1996

Vol. 470 No. 5

Adjournment Debate. - Defence Forces Voluntary Early Retirement Scheme.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

I wish to share my time with Deputy Dan Wallace.

I thank the Chair for selecting this matter which impinges on the human, social and economic rights of members of the Defence Forces. Last August Army and Navy personnel were told money was not available for a voluntary early retirement scheme and it would not be available up to the end of the year. The Minister gave those personnel the option of taking unpaid pre-retirement leave. They were asked to sign up for it before 1 September and many of them did.

It is a very difficult decision to take voluntary retirement and having made that decision it is difficult to go back on it. Many of the personnel concerned consider that they availed of the unpaid pre-retirement leave on a false premise. Many of them were unaware that they would not be entitled to receive social welfare payments from 1 September to the end of December because their contract of service remained in place.

Additional money became available in October. To say that they were bewildered, disappointed and felt let down when they discovered that in excess of 40 of their colleagues were in a position to receive voluntary early retirement is an understatement. Those who had signed on for unpaid prevoluntary retirement leave were overlooked. They felt their colleagues who received voluntary early retirement who did not accept the unpaid pre-retirement leave had a right to first choice on the voluntary early retirement as it came onstream, but that it had not been made available to them.

The Department owes those people a debt of gratitude as well as a debt for military service at home and abroad. Many of them served with great distinction. The percentage who have not had any work or pay since 1 September is significant and many of them are on their uppers. They view with amazement the fact that mainly officers were given voluntary early retirement when it became available in October.

Interim payments will not suffice. Those members are seeking full payment and consider that the Minister and the Department owe them at least voluntary early retirement from 1 September. I hold the Minister in high esteem and regard him as having a heart, being gracious and magnanimous. In the circumstances under which those members accepted unpaid pre-retirement leave I exhort him to give a commitment that if all the money is not available in 1996 he will ensure back pay is made available to those members from the 1997 Estimate.

Mr. D. Wallace

I thank Deputy O'Keeffe for allowing me the opportunity to make a brief contribution. This treatment is typical of the Government's attitude to the ordinary citizen as has been shown in other matters. However, the people involved were no ordinary citizens, but defenders of this State who served their country well. It is unacceptable that they should be treated in such a slipshod manner and be left without their well earned pensions.

Collins Barracks, one of the largest military installations in Munster, is in my constituency. There are hundreds of Defence Forces personnel living on the north side of Cork and none of them would feel remotely inspired by the shoddy events concerning those soldiers' pensions. They could not feel confident that the Minister is doing all he can for them, as befits his office.

The ordinary citizen has suffered under the Government and now those charged with the nation's safety are also being insulted. A recent statement indicated it was believed that those members who had taken pre-retirement leave were all getting jobs. I know of one member of the Defence Forces in Cork who for the best part of two or three weeks could not make up his mind about whether to take the offer. He did not know where he stood and was not getting any advice from the Army. He was left high and dry and did not have any income. That is unsatisfactory and to crown it 40 of those members who refused the offer can now say that because they stayed on money has been provided to allow them leave the Defence Forces with their pensions.

I ask the Minister to rectify this position. Like Deputy O'Keeffe, I know the Minister and I am sure he is concerned. This is an unsatisfactory position for the members concerned who have given their lives to the Defence Forces, many of them having not worked anywhere else. They are entitled to more from this State and it is up to the Minister to ensure the necessary resources are provided to correct this unsatisfactory position.

Minister for Defence (Mr. Barrett)

I thank the Chair and the Deputies for giving me the opportunity to clarify the position on the voluntary early retirement scheme and to correct some of the misinformation, whether deliberate or otherwise, being spread about this issue.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

The Minister could not accuse us of that.

Mr. Barrett

I am not referring to the Deputy. I would not suggest for one moment he would do such a thing.

I will tell the Deputies the truth and I want them to listen carefully. I want to make it absolutely clear that no member of the Defence Forces was persuaded to take voluntary early retirement against his wishes, as suggested in media reports. Neither did any member get incorrect information. I went to great lengths to ensure that all were fully informed of the implications of their decisions. The allegations that anybody was cajoled or conned into taking voluntary early retirement or the pre-retirement support leave is completely inaccurate and untrue.

Mr. D. Wallace

We never used the word "conned".

Mr. Barrett

The voluntary early retirement scheme is one element of the implementation plan which covers the first phase of the ten year programme for the reorganisation and restructuring of the Defence Forces.

I would like to emphasise once again that the voluntary early retirement scheme is completely voluntary and no member of the Defence Forces will be required to leave compulsorily. The terms of the scheme are very attractive and this is borne out by the number of personnel who applied. This year the number of applications received was more than twice the number of places available.

The terms of the voluntary early retirement scheme apply equally across the rank structure of the Defence Forces. In the case of personnel who qualify for a pension and a retirement gratuity, the additional sum is calculated on the basis of four weeks' pay for each complete year of potential service remaining to age 60 years. The maximum payment is 78 weeks pay. In the case of personnel who qualify for a retirement gratuity only, the additional lump sum is calculated on the basis of five weeks' pay for each complete year of reckonable service, subject to a maximum payment of 100 weeks' pay in the case of NCOs and privates and 55 weeks' pay in the case of officers. The additional lump sums are fully exempt from income tax. Apart from the financial package, I have provided a wide range of support services, including the provision of outplacement consultants to assist personnel leaving the Defence Forces.

As regards Deputy Dan Wallace's point, it is extraordinary that any individual could say to a Deputy that they left the Defence Forces without anyone being available to them——

Mr. D. Wallace

I had to make contact with the Department of Social Welfare on this issue.

Mr. Barrett

—— to advise them in advance. Some £0.5 million is being spent to employ consultants to advise people well in advance of taking the voluntary early retirement scheme and to assist them in getting alternative employment. I wanted to ensure that members of the Defence Forces were as fully informed as possible on the implications of their decisions and I arranged for advisory teams to be available in each command area. Furthermore, successful applicants were given two weeks to either accept or reject an offer of voluntary early retirement. In other words, after their application was received and considered by the independent board, they then had a further two weeks after the offer was made to make up their minds. They could also avail of the above services to help them to make an important decision.

The Minister for Finance announced in this year's budget that £13 million was being provided for the operation of the scheme this year. On that basis it was estimated that approximately 450 personnel in certain categories would be offered voluntary early retirement. All the applications were evaluated by the Voluntary Early Retirement Board. This board included commissioned and non-commissioned military personnel, departmental officials and an independent civilian.

When it became apparent that not everyone who applied this year could be offered voluntary early retirement, the representative associations made approaches on behalf of some of their members who, they represented, had offers of alternative employment in civilian life and who wished to avail of voluntary early retirement. It was represented that these job offers would not hold good for a long time. To facilitate these people, they were allowed to avail of unpaid pre-retirement support leave until January next, when they will receive both their voluntary early retirement and pension gratuity. I must emphasise that this concession was intended primarily, at the request of the representative associations, to facilitate the small number of personnel who, it had been represented, were in a position to take up alternative employment immediately. It was not thought that this concession would be of interest or of benefit to the majority of those personnel who could not be accommodated by this year's scheme. Personnel who did not avail of this concession did not prejudice their right to apply or be considered for next year's voluntary early retirement scheme.

Some 450 places were available at a cost of £13 million. We were asked if we would allow some personnel, who would qualify next year but who had a job offer immediately and were not included in the 450 places, to go now to enable them to accept the job offer and take their voluntary early retirement on 1 January next year with their pension. We agreed out of the goodness of our heart to help people who had jobs and who, perhaps, might lose them on 1 January next year.

Mr. D. Wallace

The Minister is very generous.

Mr. Barrett

If I had known that people were trying to jump the queue or leave the Defence Forces on the basis that they had no employment and would have no income, I would not have agreed to this concession. As a result of what happened, I am seriously considering whether such a concession should be offered next year. It is disheartening when one tries to help people, who are represented as having employment but who do not qualify this year, by telling them they can avail of a job and guaranteeing their voluntary early retirement on 1 January and then to discover that people left on unpaid leave voluntarily with no employment——

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

That is debatable.

Mr. Barrett

——and no income between September and January.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

Many were afraid of medical examinations.

Mr. Barrett

It is also extraordinary that people can say they left without assistance. I spoke at the PDFORRA conference the week before last and I pleaded with PDFORRA to encourage every member of the Defence Forces, who is considering taking the voluntary early retirement scheme, to avail of the support services we have set up to help people in their decision-making and in finding alternative employment. I am disappointed that a small number have availed of those services to date. I ask the Deputies to encourage people they know to use the services available to get advice and, I hope, alternative employment.

Some time after granting this concession, it was found possible to offer approximately 50 additional voluntary early retirement places this year. I emphasise that, as in the case of the original 450 personnel granted voluntary early retirement, the additional places were awarded in a strict order of priority which had been established by the Voluntary Early Retirement Board.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

The Minister should try to persuade those who did not benefit.

Mr. D. Wallace

The Minister is evading the question.

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us hear the Minister's reply; the Deputies have had their say.

Mr. Barrett

It is open to anybody to check the list of the Voluntary Early Retirement Board which was drawn up on the basis of the original applications. In other words, the Voluntary Early Retirement Board drew up a list in order of priority. The first 450 were offered voluntary early retirement. However, when we discovered we could offer 500 places, instead of 450, the Voluntary Early Retirement Board offered them to the next 50 on the list.

Mr. D. Wallace

It should have been offered to the people who stayed in the Army rather than giving it to the people who left.

Mr. Barrett

The people who left on pre-retirement leave did so on a voluntary basis on the understanding they were leaving to take up employment.

Mr. D. Wallace

Because the Minister had no money to give them.

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us hear the Minister without interruption.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

Many people were afraid of the medical examinations.

Mr. Barrett

Any applicants who opted for the unpaid pre-retirement support leave and who fell within the new limits set by the additional number of places available were offered the full terms of the voluntary early retirement scheme this year. This was made clear to the representative associations at the time which were kept fully informed about what was happening in relation to this matter.

I trust this makes the position clear.

Mr. D. Wallace

It does not.

Mr. Barrett

I repeat that no member of the Defence Forces was disadvantaged in the context of the voluntary early retirement scheme by virtue of having opted for the unpaid pre-retirement support leave. That leave was purely voluntary and regardless of whether a person opted for it, they did not suffer.

It is now apparent that some members of the Defence Forces who availed of the unpaid pre-retirement support leave have not taken up civilian employment, for which the scheme was primarily designed, and now find themselves with no income. Some people who opted out on a voluntary basis have no job and no income and we are now faced with a very difficult position. To ensure that no individual suffers hardship as a result of such a decision I have made arrangements that an advance from their voluntary early retirement gratuity should be made to personnel who are in genuine need. Applications have been invited from personnel who wish to avail of the advance. The first portion of the advance, which will amount to £1,500, will issue shortly to eligible applicants. The second portion of £1,500 will be issued early in December.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

Will the Minister back-date the VER to 1 September?

Mr. Barrett

I cannot repeat often enough what happened. People who did not qualify in the first group approached their representative associations, who in turn approached the Department, to say that they had a chance of a job. They recognised that they would not qualify this year but, given that the scheme will continue next year, they would qualify then. Having considered the matter and being conscious of the need for people taking voluntary early retirement to switch to civilian life, I did not think they should be deprived of a job if it was offered to them. It was on that basis they were given pre-retirement leave. Nobody was asked or forced to leave. If those people had remained until 1 January when the list would be opened again——

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

There was hidden pressure on medical grounds.

Mr. Barrett

——the Voluntary Early Retirement Board would list the people in order of priority, in the same way as the housing list, with which Deputies are very familiar. The next group of people, whether 450 or 600, would be offered early retirement in order of priority. The board is independent and I went out of my way to ensure that would be the case. It is completely inaccurate to suggest that people were passed over or that some people were transferred from the bottom to the top of the list.

As regards the number of officers who got VER compared to the number of NCOs and privates, that was done proportionately. Approximately 55 officers were offered VER as against 395 in other ranks. We tried to be absolutely fair, and that was accepted by the representative associations.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

The Minister should check the last batch.

Mr. Barrett

I am aware I have overrun my time and I thank you for allowing me take extra time. Like other Members of the House including you, Sir, who have served here for a long time, I have great respect for our Defence Forces and the last thing I want is that people would be under pressure to leave or forced to get out. It is unacceptable to suggest that members who gave service, long service in some case, would leave the Defence Forces feeling that they had been cheated, conned or cajoled because that is far from the truth.

Mr. B. O'Keeffe

They do feel that way but the Minister could do something about it by backdating the VER to 1 September.

The Dáil adourned at 10 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 24 October 1996.