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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 1 May 1997

Vol. 478 No. 6

Other Questions. - Social Welfare Benefits.

Michael McDowell

Ceist:

6 Mr. M. McDowell asked the Minister for Finance the progress, if any, which has been made by his Department in relation to the interdepartmental study on the levying of PRSI on maintenance payments from husband to wife; whether PRSI will apply to maintenance payments between divorced people, whether his Department has studied the possibility of compensating separated or divorced persons for such payments by means of a tax allowance; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11667/97]

Both my colleague, the Minister for Social Welfare, and I have previously answered questions from the Deputy on this topic. It might be useful if I were to outline again the general rules which apply in this area and the thinking behind them.

In 1994, a review of the treatment of maintenance payments for the purposes of levies and PRSI was undertaken by officials of my Department, the Office of the Revenue Commissioners and the Departments of Social Welfare, Health and Enterprise and Employment. With regard to the health contribution and employment and training levy, it was agreed they should not be imposed on that part of the payer's income which is paid to his or her separated spouse under an enforceable maintenance agreement. The appropriate changes in the law were included in the Social Welfare Act, 1995, and had effect from 6 April 1995. This brings the treatment of maintenance payments for the purposes of the levies into line with their treatment in the income tax system.

The interdepartmental review involving separated spouses also concluded there should be no change in the PRSI treatment of maintenance payments. The payment of separate PRSI contributions enables each spouse to build up a social insurance record in their own right, and they can both, in due course, qualify for a pension. A provision in the Divorce Act, extends this treatment to people who obtain divorces within this country.

Entitlement to a social insurance pension is a valuable right and affords protection to separated or divorced spouses. It is, therefore, important for the protection of their individual pension rights that social insurance contributions be made by the recipients of maintenance payments. Maintenance payments are not regarded merely as a transfer from one individual to another, but in these circumstances each individual's income is regarded as being a separate entity for social insurance purposes. The logic behind both parties paying PRSI is that social insurance contributions confer substantial benefits on the contributor and ensure an adequate level of social protection. It is believed the arrangement whereby recipients of maintenance payments make social insurance contributions is equitable.

It appears the Deputy is seeking to equate, for PRSI purposes, the treatment of a married couple with that of a separated couple. It must be accepted that a separated or divorced couple are now two distinct entities whose pension rights should be individually catered for, rather than as a single unit, which clearly they are not.

In relation to introducing a tax allowance for PRSI purposes, I have no plans to introduce such an allowance either for separated or divorced persons on equity grounds or in general on the grounds of cost.

The majority of separated people are not aware of the PRSI liability on maintenance payments between husband and wife. They do not pay it and would be astounded to hear they are liable for it. I fail to grasp the Minister's logic that there is a stronger case for imposing PRSI on two people whose marriage has broken down to the degree that they have formalised their payments on a monthly basis when one ignores married couples who are just getting on in a loose arrangement with money being put on the kitchen table with no PRSI deduction.

Will the Minister indicate what rate of PRSI applies to such payments? Does the paying spouse have to make a deduction in PRSI? Must the receiving spouse, normally the wife, send in a portion of her maintenance to the Revenue Commissioners? Most people are completely unaware of this and would consider it deeply unfair and inequitable.

I appreciate the Deputy's concern. The questions are complex as are the replies and I will try to facilitate the Deputy with the information available to me. PRSI is paid at a rate of 5 per cent on maintenance payments. Deputy McDowell wants to know why is it higher than the generally applied class A rate of 4.5 per cent and why the PRSI free allowance of £80 is not available to the recipient. The estranged person on maintenance is clearly paying a higher contribution than the payee and he wants to know how this is justifiable.

An employee gets an allowance.

The PRSI arrangements for class A employees are as follows: an employer pays 8.5 per cent on earnings up to £260 per week and 12 per cent where earnings exceed that subject to a ceiling of £27,900 and the employee pays 4.5 per cent on earnings up to £23,200 with a PRSI free allowance of £80 per week. Self-employed and persons receiving maintenance payments pay 5 per cent on income over £20 per week. These contrasting arrangements, having regard to the entitlements which ensue, are considered equitable for the different categories.

I do not know who considers them equitable because they are astonishingly draconian. A wife must cough up 5 per cent of what she receives under a maintenance agreement and is told this is equitable because if she was working and receiving the same amount of money her employer would to have pay PRSI also. This is an outrageous imposition on people, most of whom cannot afford it. They are in enough difficulty running two households because they have separated. Does the Minister agree the proposition that a wife must cough up 5 per cent of her maintenance payments to the Revenue Commissioners is astonishing? If the public knew about this, there would be a revolution. The fact that it is unknown is the only reason it has not been changed. If it were widely known, would the Minister agree it would be the cause of huge uproar? Does he agree that the vast majority of separated people do not comply? I have never heard of a wife who sent money to the Revenue Commissioners. It is an extraordinary imposition and tax on people whose lives are blighted enough normally. Most Irish people cannot afford two households out of one salary and this is an outrageous imposition on maintenance payments.

We are aware of the economic hardship which can result from marital breakdown. It is precisely because separated couples face different economic circumstances that the current arrangement for social insurance contributions was introduced. The protection of the estranged spouse was at the core of this issue at the outset. Maintenance payments are not subject to double taxation and the remaining anomaly in this regard — the issue of the double payment of the levies — has been resolved. Social insurance is not a tax. It is based on a contributory principle by which future benefits can be secured.

Last week the Minister said the £300 million included PRSI.

It is of vital importance that the pension rights of both spouses are protected in the event of marital breakdown and this is the sole reason that social insurance contributions be made by the payer and recipient of maintenance payments. I am sure the Deputy will concede that future individual pension rights are in the best interests of separated couples and this situation is fundamentally different from that of married couples.

I declare an interest in the matter. Perhaps the Minister's officials could issue details in regard to this for Members because it is complicated.

The reason it is rated at 5 per cent is because it is based on the self employed PRSI rate. That is the only justification for it subject to a minimum of £215 per week in 1996/7. Will the Minister confirm that the 5 per cent rate only covers future pension entitlements and does not entitle a person to any other benefits under the social insurance contributions?

I agree with Deputy McDowell that it should be changed.

Why not make it voluntary?

There is provision for self-employed voluntary PRSI contributions.

I recognise Deputy McDowell's considerable concern on this issue. He has raised it on a number of occasions previously and I agree that many people are not aware of their obligations in this area. I will raise the matter with the Minister for Social Welfare to see how this issue can be addressed. I think Deputy McCreevy's intervention is correct with regards to the pension entitlement and why it is rated at the same rate as the self-employed but I must have it confirmed.

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