Vol. 482 No. 4
9 Mr. Flanagan asked the Minister for Defence his views in relation to the concerns expressed at the recent PDFORRA conference in relation to the excessive work periods in the Defence Forces; and the plans, if any, he has to deal with this problem. [18177/97]
13 Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister for Defence if he has sought a report in relation to the statement by the President of PDFORRA at the association's conference in Tralee on 8 October 1997, that 72 hour weeks have become the norm rather than the exception right across the country in the Army and that, for example, less than 24 hours after completing a 72 hour shift in Portlaoise, soldiers had to take part in a 24 hour training exercise; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18229/97]
17 Mrs. B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister for Defence if his Department has had investigations into the matter of Army drivers falling asleep at the wheel because they are so over-worked in view of the statement made by the President of PDFORRA at the association's conference in Tralee on 8 October 1997; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18228/97]
28 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Defence if his attention has been drawn to concern expressed at the recent PDFORRA conference that exhausted Army drivers were falling asleep at the wheels of vehicles because of the long hours they have to work; if he will consider voluntarily applying the terms of the Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997 to members of the Defence Forces in view of the clear dangers involved; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18135/97]
42 Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for Defence his views on the request by PDFORRA to include military personnel under working time legislation. [18170/97]
The Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997 provides for the implementation of a European directive on certain aspects of the organisation of working time. Section 3 provides for its non-application to, among others, the Defences Forces and Garda Síochána.
Under the terms of the Defence Act, military personnel are liable at all times to render military service. Therefore, the application to the Defence Forces of legislation relating to the organisation of working time would be contrary to the principle of military service and would have fundamental organisational and operational implications for the efficiency and effectiveness of the Defence Forces. As there is no sector of the Permanent Defence Force that is regarded as non-essential its application to "non-essential areas" does not arise. This position is unequivocally supported by the military authorities.
The hours worked by personnel on security duties vary according to location and the security position at any given time. In general, personnel detailed for barrack or post security are employed on that duty for 24 hours. The hours worked on other type of security duties, such as providing aid to the civil power, cannot be accurately predicted as it is dependent on the security position and resources available at any given time. A security duty allowance is payable when Permanent Defence Force personnel are required to carry out such duties outside of their normal working schedule.
Members of the Defence Forces are given adequate rest periods following or during occasions when long hours of duty may be necessary. In this respect, rest and sleep periods are often availed of during periods of extended hours of duty. In addition the Defence Forces have a very flexible and general system of leave-granting, time-off and "days resting off" which reflects and caters for the uniqueness of military life.
I am satisfied existing arrangements and conditions relating to time off and monetary compensation take full cognisance of the nature and requirements of military service and that application of the Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997 to the Defence Forces would not be appropriate.
Has the Minister met representatives of PDFORRA to discuss the concerns expressed by its president at its conference in Tralee when he said that, with the reduction in the personnel numbers in the Defence Forces, 72-hour weeks had become the norm rather than the exception and gave an example of soldiers, within fewer than 24 hours of having completed a 72-hour shift in Portlaoise, having to participate in a 24-hour training exercise? Has he investigated the specific complaints the PDFORRA president voiced at its conference? Is the Minister concerned about such instances, which however few, demand a great deal of our soldiers?
Section 85 of the Defence Act, 1954 in relation to service of members of the Permanent Defence Force states that every member of the Permanent Defence Force shall be liable at all times to render military service within the State and if he or she is employed on a State ship or service aircraft be liable at all times while so employed to render military service outside the territorial seas of the State. Because of the very nature of security and the activities of the Defence Forces there will be occasions when members have to serve long hours. For that reason it would be impossible to apply the provisions of the Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997. As far as I can ascertain, that is largely the position of police and military forces worldwide.
However, to answer the specific question Deputy Fitzgerald raised, I will meet members of PDFORRA very soon. I had a brief opportunity to meet them on the occasion of their conference in Tralee. This was not one of the matters I addressed then since that meeting took place just one day after my appointment.
The type of example cited may well be the case from time to time but should arise in the most exceptional circumstances only. However, the changes taking place, reduction in personnel numbers and possible delay in the recruitment process may well have imposed certain strains which I hope will be overcome very quickly as that recruitment drive percolates throughout the system and supports the existing cadre. With such continuous recruitment I hope such pressures can be avoided. Nonetheless, because of the exceptional nature of the service within the security area - all Members will have had such experiences both within the Garda and Defence Forces — such exceptionally long working hours may well occur but should be the exception because members are entitled to their rest periods, time off and adequate facilities. Within the limits of our capabilities we must strive strenuously to ensure that it will be on the rare occasion only that such will be the case.
The reply the Minister gave today in relation to the Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997 corresponds word for word with that he gave on 2 October last; yet on 8 October, almost a week later the president of PDFORRA made a very strong public statement to the effect that members of the Defence Forces were falling asleep at the wheels of trucks because of the hours they were expected to be on duty. Surely that is not acceptable? Does the Minister accept that its president would not have made such a big issue of it in public unless it was true and was giving rise to serious concern?
Furthermore, would he agree that the spirit of the Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997 could be applied voluntarily since its provisions sought to regulate in a humane way the hours any person, whether a member of the Defence Forces or otherwise, would be required to be on duty and alert?
Does he agree there is a distinction to be drawn between members of the Defence Forces on active service on peacekeeping exercises or in supporting the civil power, say, in the case of road blocks and so on? Does he agree that a distinction should be drawn between the day to day, routine activities of members of the Defence Forces and other special activities in which they may have to engage from time to time in support of the civil power?
When I answered Deputy Fitzgerald earlier I approached the matter from a different angle, that is on the basis of an immediate inquiry as to how the Health and Safety at Work Act was being operated within the Defence Forces. Very considerable resources have been allocated to the successful implementation of its provisions; something like 63 different standards of a technical, military and other nature having been supplied to different members and an advisory military committee established. The best possible effort is being made on the crucial aspect of the general health and safety of members of the Defence Forces. The opportunity does not arise for any implementation of the provisions of the Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997 in the case of the Defence Forces. Nonetheless, I will undertake to ensure that any such allegations — where they can be substantiated - are examined and steps taken to ensure they do not recur at all or in exceptional circumstances only.
Nobody knows better than members of the Defence Forces that exceptional demands can and have been made on them from time to time. Therefore, I welcome the Minister's assertion that in modern times these long periods on duty must be exceptional. Members of the Defence Forces are as entitled to health and safety at work as anybody else. In fairness to the military authorities and the Department of Defence, that would be their approach to this issue. To return to a point I put to the Minister earlier in relation to the current stage of the implementation plan, there are serious shortages of personnel in a number of areas. It is much more likely, therefore, that people will be required to work excessively long hours, particularly on the Border where onerous duties are carried out.
A question please, Deputy.
Is the Minister concerned about the shortages of personnel on the Border and the additional demands placed on the units serving that area where these difficulties have arisen?
I was surprised when I saw the statistics on the average number of hours worked on Border duty which did not seem to present problems. That sometimes belies sets of circumstances which, when averages are applied, can change the whole picture. I said earlier in answer to questions from Deputy Fitzgerald that the amalgamation of the different units and the various stages of the implementation plan would cause certain difficulties. That is one of the reasons I want to begin the 1998 recruitment programme as quickly as possible because gaps can emerge and they can only be closed fully with constant recruitment programmes.
The most disconcerting aspect of the statement by the president of PDFORRA was that a 72 hour working week has become the norm rather than the exception across the country, not just in specific areas or unusual circumstances.
A question please, Deputy.
Does the Minister agree that there is a horrendous workload involved in a 72 hour week? Will he agree also that it is totally unacceptable and a problem which must be addressed in terms of the performance of soldiers in their duties?
Many of us understand what it is like to work much longer hours than the norm. We are expected to perform well even under that type of pressure. There are solid reasons it is important that men and women in the Defence Forces are not fatigued when performing their duties. On the basis of a preliminary examination of these hours, they do not appear on average to present the type of problems outlined. I have undertaken to revisit this matter to see to what extent I can help. I do not want to bore the House by repeating myself, but one of the ways I can help is through substantial and constant recruitment and ensuring these gaps do not emerge in the future.
