It is proposed to take No. 8c, motion re leave to introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 10, 15, 17, 25, 30, 32, 35, 36 and 45]; and No. 8b, Financial Motions by the Minister for Finance (resumed). It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 8c shall be decided without debate and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; and No. 8b shall not be considered in Committee and the following arrangements shall apply in relation to the resumed debate: (i) The speech of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and of the Taoiseach, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 40 minutes in each case; (ii) the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case; and (iii) Members may share time.
Order of Business.
There are two proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with item No. 8c agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with item No. 8b agreed? Agreed.
Will the Taoiseach agree to a debate next week on the situation where Irish exporters to and through Britain are being denied the opportunity to exercise their trade by a mob, with the police standing by and the rule of law not being enforced in Britain in a way that is disadvantageous to this island? Will the Taoiseach take up this matter in the strongest possible terms with the British Prime Minister who was extremely vocal when this happened to British truckers in French ports but who now allows the police to stand by while Irish truckers are victimised by a mob who interviews them and decides who shall and shall not pass? Will the Taoiseach call in the British Ambassador this morning to express his concern and that of the House about this matter? Will he seek a personal discussion with the British Prime Minister about the matter today?
I support the point made by Deputy Bruton and add my concern. Will the Taoiseach indicate to the House if, at any stage since this matter arose, he has personally contacted the British Prime Minister? Has he spoken to him about what is a flagrant breach of international law which offends every principle the British are supposed to support? Will he indicate to the House that he will take the necessary measures without waiting, with all due respect to the Leader of the Fine Gael Party, for a debate next week? We are seeing unprecedented events occurring in the United Kingdom with the UK police facilitating what Deputy Bruton rightly described as a mob deciding which trucks can and cannot be let through? With all due respect, it is not good enough for the Taoiseach to wait until next week. What action did the Taoiseach take yesterday, what action will he take today and tomorrow to ensure that the rule of law in the European Union and the treaty obligations to which the British have committed themselves are properly upheld?
I support the points made by the Leaders of the Fine Gael and Labour parties in this matter. The scenes we have witnessed in relation to the way Irish truckers are being treated as they arrive at British ports are unacceptable. We must do business with the rest of Europe and the world and this is the only way we can export our goods. It is essential that the British authorities ensure that our trucks are enabled to travel through their territory unhindered.
Like the other Deputies who have spoken, I ask the Taoiseach to take a direct personal stand in this matter. This is more than an Irish agricultural matter. We depend on access from this island to other markets to sustain and build on the confidence that exist in this economy. If that is undermined, this and other sectors of Irish business will suffer. Will the Taoiseach take that on board and make a personal appeal to the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair?
The question of having a debate next week can be considered. I take the strongest possible view on this matter. From the outset, we made our views known to the British authorities at the highest levels. During the course of the day I hope to talk to the British Prime Minister. Last night, the Minister for Agriculture and Food spoke to his UK counterpart whom he will meet at 3.30 p.m. today.
As has been stated, it is the duty of the British Government under the treaties to uphold the free movement of goods. That is not happening. Movement is being impeded. While I am pleased to hear the good words of Dr. Jack Cunningham, the Agriculture Minister, and others, I will ask today that those words be turned into action and that the movement of goods be allowed. In answer to Deputy Quinn, it has been reported to me in the past few days that the laws will be upheld, but communications I have received indicate that four of our trucks were turned back. We have had these protests at Holyhead, Stranraer and a third port, Fishguard. Apparently what happened is that the police have stood back and allowed the protesters—
They have facilitated them.
It is not the first time this has happened.
—to interview the truckers and take action. They have not become involved. I appreciate the points made by the party leaders and I will make known their concerns, my own and those of all the parties in this House. I indicated also that the traders will be seeking compensation for breach of the principles which the British are duty bound to uphold. As far as I am concerned, if this action was taken by us, we would be castigated from every quarter. It is clearly not good enough. This has gone on for days. The Minister for Agriculture and Food will convey the views of the Government and of this House on this matter and I hope to do so as soon as I speak to the British Prime Minister.
We cannot have a debate at this stage. I will confine this matter to party leaders and allow them ask short supplementary questions. There should be opportunities during the course of the budget debate to relate this matter to fiscal and budgetary policy.
Will the Taoiseach ask the relevant Minister, the Minister for Public Enterprise, to make immediate contact with the British Commissioner for Transport in Brussels, Mr. Neil Kinnock, who has specific responsibility for maintaining transport links within the internal market and ask him to put pressure on his party colleagues in London to enforce the rule of law in Britain? The Minister for Agriculture and Food should arrange with the farming organisations here to meet the Welsh Farmers Union and the National Farmers Union in Britain to protest in the strongest fashion about this matter. Will the Taoiseach bear in mind that if Irish trade unionists or farmers blocked British exports, if the geographic positions of Ireland and Britain were reversed, the cacophony of protest from the yellow press in Britain would be deafening? Will the Taoiseach ensure that a strong united front is presented by this country in defence of the rule of law, something which we had expected would be enforced in Britain?
I note what the Taoiseach said and I understood him to say he intends to try to contact the Prime Minister, Mr. Blair today. Why has he not done so already? Will he state which Minister is directly responsible to ensure that Irish producers are compensated? Is it the Minister for Public Enterprise or is it, as I suspect, the Minister for Agriculture and Food? Will he ensure that a claim for compensation is lodged by the Irish Government and not by the vulnerable traders suffering as a consequence of the failure of British authorities to maintain civil order? Will he demand that this item be raised at the summit in Luxembourg next week and dealt with before any other business, and convey that demand immediately to the President of the Commission, Jacques Santer, so that there is no doubt as to the intent of the Irish Government on this matter. If this precedent sticks it will do irreparable damage to Irish exports. With the exception of Belgium we export more than any other country and 94 per cent of our exports are transported by roll-on/roll-off vehicles. The Taoiseach has an obligation to this House and nation to ensure that every step is taken, including calling in the British Ambassador this afternoon, to make our views clear in no uncertain terms. I want Irish producers compensated by the British authorities immediately through the action not of individual civil suits but by an action taken by the Irish Government.
I welcome what the Taoiseach indicated about talking directly to Mr. Blair. It is also important to draw attention to the fact that the ports concerned were funded by the European Union, they were developed with the assistance of European funds and the European Union has a role to play in resolving this matter. It seems those funds would have been provided only on the basis that there would be free movement of traffic through those ports. The European Union has an obligation to guarantee that our trucks and goods can pass freely through those ports. Will the Taoiseach indicate to Mr. Blair that is our view? Will he indicate to the European Council and the European Commission that action should be taken by them also?
I welcome the resolve of the Taoiseach and I hope it will have an early effect. In communicating the anger of the Irish people on this matter to the British Ambassador and to the higher echelons in the European Union, will he set on the agenda the prospect of calling for an inquiry into the ineffectiveness of British policing of the Welsh ports? Without some investigation into what happened the effects of this will continue to cast a cloud on the ability of the British police to effect an open port policy.
I note what the Deputies stated. Contacting the Commissioner for Transport, is a good suggestion and I will do that. Regarding our contact, the Minister, Dr. Jack Cunningham, has endeavoured to be helpful over the past few days.
The police have not been.
His good words are appreciated, but we are calling for them to be implemented. I have made arrangements this morning and I will convey the strong views of the Irish Government and the Dáil to the British Government.
The traders will seek compensation. There has been a clear breach of principles and whatever we can do to assist them in that regard will be done. I know from a meeting I had with the Minister for Agriculture and Food this morning that the process of the traders making applications in regard to what happened to them on Sunday night is under way.
Regarding meetings with farmers, I know the farm leaders have talked to members of the Government and they have communicated with their colleagues. All these matters have been progressing since the early hours of Monday morning, but it is now Thursday morning and there has not been any action. What we need to see happen and what is at issue is not whether to have an inquiry into the effectiveness of the Welsh police, it is a question of the British Government accepting its obligation and duty under the EU Treaties to uphold the laws and regulations that govern the free movement of goods in the Community. It is its duty to implement them, but they have not been implemented. That will be put in the strongest possible terms in the conversation I will have with the Prime Minister and in the conversation the Minister, Deputy Walsh, will have with Dr. Jack Cunningham.
That subject is now closed. Is there any other matter on the Order of Business?
I thank the Chair for allowing that short discussion which will serve the national interest. On a slightly related matter but not breaching the Chair's ruling, will the Taoiseach indicate the present status of preparation of the food safety and quality authority Bill in view of the relevance of having objective decisions about acceptable standards in food quality in light of decisions taken in Britain in regard to beef in recent days? Will the Taoiseach ensure in the drafting of that legislation the suggestion will be taken up of working in concert with other countries including Britain so that there are objectively accepted standards of food quality applying in all EU countries rather than national standards?
The heads of the Bill will be ready in January and it is expected the Bill will be ready in February or March. I will indicate to the Department the urgency of proceeding with the drafting of this Bill and its preparation for presentation to the House as soon as possible.
Does the Taoiseach consider it is rather optimistic to suggest the draft Bill will be ready in March if the heads of it will not be ready until February? Surely the drafting will take longer than that? Will he not ask the Department of Health and Children to ensure that the heads of the Bill are presented before Christmas so that the drafting can start earlier?
Much of this Bill effectively consolidates existing legislation and regulation — it is composite legislation. It will not take long after the heads are prepared to draft the Bill. As much of the legislation exists, it is a matter of consolidating it.
I would like to clarify a matter with the Taoiseach. I understood the White Paper on the Amsterdam Treaty would be completed and published before Christmas. The Taoiseach indicated yesterday or the day before that it was not likely to happen until the end of January. If that is the case, what is the delay and has the draft of the White Paper been prepared?
I answered this question already. The White Paper is ready but from the point of view of its presentation and putting it to the people in a way which will get their interest and attention, we will launch it shortly after Christmas. It would be better to do that rather than introduce it during the Christmas period.
We could read it over Christmas.
(Mayo): I thank the Taoiseach for allowing the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to again bypass the Dáil in relation to his legislative intentions. He told the media last night and again this morning that the Government proposes to introduce a transfer of sentenced persons Bill to enable more IRA prisoners to be returned to this jurisdiction. When will the Bill be published and taken in the House? Will the Taoiseach give an assurance that it will not be debated without consultation with the Whips, which has not happened so far?
We are correcting your mistakes.
Who did the Deputy say bypassed the Dáil?
(Mayo): I am talking about the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, who told the media last night and again this morning that a new Bill concerning the transfer of sentenced persons would be introduced.
I told the House several times this Bill would be published. The Bill will deal with the 20 year rule and after consultation with the Attorney General and Departments, it was felt necessary to avoid any impression that prisoners returned here could find themselves in an improved situation vis-à-vis the transfer of prisoners under the European convention and that perhaps they would be released earlier. To avoid that impression being given, I said we would introduce a Bill before Christmas. I asked several weeks ago that the Whips facilitate this Bill before Christmas and I got a positive answer.
I would like to ask the Taoiseach about the 800 year rule. The Government promised in its programme for legislation to abolish ground rents, which has been Fianna Fáil policy and that of all parties in the House for many years, yet the legislation is not before the House. When may we expect that legislation?
I would also like to ask the Taoiseach about another historic relic and the comments he made on the GAA's rule 21, which was described by the President as sectarian. Will the Taoiseach make the granting of £20 million to the GAA contingent on dropping that sectarian rule?
Work is proceeding on the ground rents Bill. As the Deputy knows, it is an area in which constitutional issues arise. We must face up to those issues. Detailed work is being undertaken at present but we are some time away from introducing the Bill.
What about my second question?
It does not arise on the Order of Business.
Does the Government intend to introduce legislation to establish a tribunal or an administrative based award scheme to deal with the thousands of claims for compensation for Army deafness?
This matter was raised on the Adjournment and the Minister dealt with it.
In view of the ongoing discussions with representative bodies of the Defence Forces and the proposals on rationalisation or reorganisation of the forces, does the Taoiseach intend to introduce amending legislation as promised? Given the substantial claims for injury against the Department of Defence, does the Government intend to introduce amending legislation or regulations to deal with the abnormal number of claims relating to injury to the hearing of members and former members of the Defence Forces? Does the Taoiseach intend to allow these substantial claims to continue to be made through the normal due process?
That matter was raised on the Adjournment on Tuesday.
As I stated yesterday, the Defence (Amendment) Bill, about which the Deputy asked, will be ready in the next session in early spring. No legislation is proposed on the other matters raised by the Deputy, although a number of issues are being examined by the Minister for Defence.
What steps are being taken to reopen some of the third country markets which would be very valuable? Is the Taoiseach aware there has been a reduction of more than 250,000 in the number of cattle being exported in the past five months than in the same period the previous year? Even without the Welsh problem, we face a glut.
The Government is doing all it can to keep open and open other third country markets.
On Tuesday I asked the Taoiseach about the date of the next local elections and I thank him for replying by letter in which he stated that the Minister for the Environment and Local Government will make a statement shortly in connection with the decision on holding local elections next year. Will that statement be made in the House and will Members have an opportunity to respond?
I will restate what I said. The legislation on the two issues will come before the House. If that issue is in legislation, it will be debated.
I refer to the food Bill about which the Taoiseach spoke and which is supposed to be ready next spring. Given what the UK authorities did yesterday with our boned beef being sent to Britain, will the Taoiseach ensure the Department of Health and Children and Bord Bia make a definitive statement that we have the best beef in the world. The worst thing which could happen would be a drop in domestic consumption because there is enough trouble in agriculture.
The Deputy made his point and it is not appropriate to the Order of Business. Perhaps the Deputy will avail of an opportunity during the debate on the budget to make that point.
We have scientific evidence in this regard.
This is a relevant issue. The Department of Agriculture and Food and scientific evidence suggest the incidence of BSE is extremely low in this country. The Deputy will know the number of herds affected in November last year was 18, while this November four herds have been affected. In three of those herds one beast only was affected and in the fourth herd, two beasts were affected.
Some 90,000 tonnes of beef are exported to the United Kingdom and it is a £200 million trade. Some 95 per cent of that trade is in boneless beef. We have no difficulty dealing with the other 5 per cent if we have to. We do not necessarily accept the research in Britain on the risk elements — the spinal cord and the brain — that tissue attached to the bone is high risk. That is not our position. Our beef, boneless and otherwise, is as close to perfect as one will get in the modern world.
I would like to ask about two Bills and refer to a statement I made in the House earlier this week concerning the sale of fisheries. I thank the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources for his swift action to prevent the sales to which I refer. Ireland is now in breach of the EU regulations on the transport of dangerous substances. I understand the Bill dealing with this is ready and it is simply a matter of introducing it and getting it passed. Also, what is the position of the road transport Bill?
I understand the road transport Bill is almost ready but that it will not be published until January.
Does the Government plan to introduce legislation to update the law in line with technological developments and possible serious health dangers and environmental concerns regarding the transmission of power by the ESB? There has been unregulated construction of hundreds of steel pylons, especially in my area of scenic east Cork, when there is a clear viable alternative.
Is legislation promised on this?
There will be an ESB Bill next year but it does not deal with this issue.
My question relates to promised legislation. The Taoiseach indicated yesterday he would introduce legislation on mobile phone masts in the new year. Will the Taoiseach tell me exactly what he has in mind? Would he agree with me that an independent body could be set up under the Radiological Protection Act, 1991, which could also deal with Deputy Stanton's problem? Is the Taoiseach aware that ESAT Digifone——
The Deputy may not ask such a question on the Order of Business. The Deputy should table a parliamentary question.
This is promised legislation and the Taoiseach should answer my question.
A Bill is being prepared and I cannot elaborate on its detail on the Order of Business. Its purpose is to try to encourage people to examine the multiple use of masts rather than what is happening at the moment.
Mr. Hayes
A commitment was entered into that the traveller accommodation Bill would be published before the Christmas recess. Is that still the case?
I told the House it would be ready before Christmas and that is still my information. However, we are near Christmas so I will seek to have it ready.