Ivan Yates
Ceist:6 Mr. Yates asked the Minister for Public Enterprise if she will give details of her recent meeting with Commissioner Monika Wulf-Mathies regarding the European funding to be made available for Luas. [22766/97]
Priority Questions. - Light Rail Project.
I met the Commissioner for Regional Policy and Cohesion, Monika Wulf-Mathies, on 28 November. The Commissioner expressed her satisfaction with the general progress in spending Structural Fund moneys in Ireland. I briefed her on the current position in relation to the Luas project and reaffirmed the Government's commitment to the construction of a light rail system for Dublin. I also confirmed that the study of the underground option vis-à-vis the overground option would be completed by the end of April next. This will tie in with the review of the EU funding for the project which will take place in spring 1998.
We reaffirmed an earlier agreement that the planning and design of the Ballymun to city centre route would proceed in parallel with the construction of the Tallaght-city centre-Dundrum route, with a firm target of commencing the construction of the Ballymun route immediately the Tallaght to Dundrum route is completed. In doing so both the Commissioner and I noted with satisfaction the decision of the Community Support Framework Monitoring Committee to allocate 10 million ECU of Structural Fund assistance at an aid rate of 65 per cent for planning work on the Ballymun route and the Government decision to fund the balance.
Will the Minister clarify her public remarks after that meeting to the effect that these funds will not be lost to Ireland, which implies that if they are lost to Luas other projects will be found for them? Is the Minister trying the patience of the Commissioner to exhaustion, to the point of jeopardising the 123 million ECUs for the Luas project? Will she confirm that the CSF monitoring committee is to meet in the spring to clarify whether this funding will go ahead, and that there is a real risk that because of further procrastination Luas will become the most over analysed public transport project?
The money will not be lost to Ireland if the study finds it would be preferable for Luas to go underground. The Deputy asks whether I am trying the patience of the Commissioner. If so, it was not apparent. We had a most amicable meeting. I found her an admirable woman, straightforward and commonsensical, very much in tune with my own ideas about how people should conduct themselves publicly. I enjoyed the interview very much, and we had a very pleasant social interlude when the business was over.
The Deputy also said the Luas project was the most over analysed public transport project in history. That is true. Every study commissioned was commissioned at the behest of the sponsoring group, namely, CIE-Luas. I find it extraordinary that any administration would be willing to run with a project without instigating a study to find out the best way of doing it. The study is to be completed by mid-April. If it concludes that the better option is to build the Luas overground we will be able to avail of the funding. If, however, the study concludes that the best option is to build it underground, we will make our plans accordingly. This is a project which will have to stand the test of time for decades. I want to take the right decision based on proper research and, until now, no study has been done by an objective outside group on the underground option.
My question relates to how secure EU funding for Luas is? I understand the Commission needs to have commitments for expenditure within the time frame set out. Is the Minister saying she is so anxious to get it right that she is prepared to jeopardise the funding? What is the Minister's view on whether these EU funds will be spent on the Luas project? Is she saying they are absolutely secure, that there is a small risk that they will be lost, or that the 123 million ECUs awarded on the operational programme will go to Luas as planned?
I have made it as plain as I can. If the study concludes in favour of the overground option, tight as the timetable may be, the money earmarked for Luas will go to Luas. If the objective study concludes the underground option is better, in this operational programme, the money earmarked for Luas will not be available for it because the timetable would not allow for fresh planning etc. That is not a new discovery for the Deputy. I have said it conclusively. Equally, I have said that if it is the result of the study that Luas should go underground — and we do not know what the result will be — the moneys will not be lost to Ireland. Studies will be put forward for the next round of funding. The Government is committed to a light rail system.
Will the Minister agree that if this report concludes that Luas must go underground, then Luas will not go ahead, given that she has acknowledged that it will lose European funding? Will she also agree that, given that the cost will rise by at least £70 million, there is no way the Exchequer will fully fund Luas? Will the Minister now accept that she is putting the Luas project at risk if it is proposed that it should go underground and, if it is to go overground, that she has wasted six months?
The Deputy is pretending he has just discovered something new. That is not the case.
I am saying the Minister is jeopardising the Luas project.
I did not cut in on the Deputy when he asked his question. He should allow me to answer his question as straightforwardly as I can. I cannot understand that somebody who is so bright, smart and intelligent, continues to dig himself into a culvert on this question. When I came into the Department I found, to my disbelief, that no study had been conducted into the question of putting the Luas underground. Indeed, a very eminent member of the Deputy's party, Dr. Garrett FitzGerald, is far more passionate about putting the Luas underground than I am. I am entirely dispassionate about it and wish to make the right decision, but to my disbelief no objective assessment was done on whether to put the Luas underground or overground. It was a case of "grab the money and run", because the money was there.
It may be gone.
That is not fair.
If the study concludes that the Luas should go overground, the money will be drawn down, tight though the timetable will be. If the study concludes that it should go underground, the money will not be lost to Ireland. This Government is committed to a light rail system for Dublin. I will come here cheerfully to every Question Time and repeat the same answer. I want to decide on full objective analyses and evidence on the best system for Dublin, not implement a system driven by what was available in cash.